Another approach...

Graham Marsden, 09 Sep 2006 01:56:54

Hi there,

Having been looking through what's been written about these proposals in
various comments forums etc, something's occurred to me.

This debate seems to have become somewhat polarised into two camps:

1) The "I may not like it, but if you're an adult I'm not going to say
you can't look at it" side.

2) The "I'm anti-porn, so I'm going to jump on any bandwagon that will
help me further my agenda" side.

I'm wondering if this might be a good approach for countering at least
some of the opposition, ie that the "anti" campaign is really after a
bigger target which is *all* porn and they're just using the Longhurst
case as a justification for their activities?

What do people think?

Cheers,
Graham.


Paul Tavener, 09 Sep 2006 21:53:02

Graham,

I'm sure your right. A lot of people such as Beyer &Co believe exactly that. They want to turn this law into a bludgeon to beat anything pornographic with.

I think it's entirely reasonsble to campaign along the lines that images of sexual activity between consenting adults should not be a crime to posess however 'abhorrent' they might appear to you me or anyone else. That way the other side would then have to bring up the point that this is non consentual, to which we could counter that the images are consentual in the same way that the deaths seen any film from Miss Marpole to Dawn of the Dead are in reality consentual.

Author wrote:
> Hi there,
> Having been looking through what's been written about these proposals in
> various comments forums etc, something's occurred to me.
> This debate seems to have become somewhat polarised into two camps:
> 1) The "I may not like it, but if you're an adult I'm not going to say
> you can't look at it" side.
> 2) The "I'm anti-porn, so I'm going to jump on any bandwagon that will
> help me further my agenda" side.
> I'm wondering if this might be a good approach for countering at least
> some of the opposition, ie that the "anti" campaign is really after a
> bigger target which is *all* porn and they're just using the Longhurst
> case as a justification for their activities?
> What do people think?
> Cheers,
> Graham.


SnowdropExplodes, 11 Sep 2006 22:55:08

While it is poor logic, when seeking to persuade the public, ad hominem attacks work.

I think that painting the supporters of this proposed law as being unreasoning haters of all things sexual is a tactic that can work. The fact that almost all the organisations to respond have been "ban all porn" type people, this has some mileage in it, at least as far as the general public are concerned - in terms of perception as opposed to logic, it looks good.

And it offers that question - if you let them do this, what will they come for next?

Ta,

SnowdropExplodes

graham wrote: Hi there,

Having been looking through what's been written about these proposals in
various comments forums etc, something's occurred to me.

This debate seems to have become somewhat polarised into two camps:

1) The "I may not like it, but if you're an adult I'm not going to say
you can't look at it" side.

2) The "I'm anti-porn, so I'm going to jump on any bandwagon that will
help me further my agenda" side.

I'm wondering if this might be a good approach for countering at least
some of the opposition, ie that the "anti" campaign is really after a
bigger target which is *all* porn and they're just using the Longhurst
case as a justification for their activities?

What do people think?

Cheers,
Graham.




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Graham Marsden, 13 Sep 2006 11:23:28

Hi there,

-OJT- wrote:

> While it is poor logic, when seeking to persuade the public, ad hominem
> attacks work.

Yep, although technically this is "ad hominem tu quoque", ie they
started it by misrepresenting when they suggest that we and these
pictures "promote violence against women" etc, we're just using the same
tactics :-)

> I think that painting the supporters of this proposed law as being
> unreasoning haters of all things sexual is a tactic that can work. The
> fact that almost all the organisations to respond have been "ban all
> porn" type people, this has some mileage in it, at least as far as the
> general public are concerned - in terms of perception as opposed to
> logic, it looks good.

That's what I hope.

> And it offers that question - if you let them do this, what will they
> come for next?

Exactly.

Cheers,
Graham.

> Hi there,
>
> Having been looking through what's been written about these proposals in
> various comments forums etc, something's occurred to me.
>
> This debate seems to have become somewhat polarised into two camps:
>
> 1) The "I may not like it, but if you're an adult I'm not going to say
> you can't look at it" side.
>
> 2) The "I'm anti-porn, so I'm going to jump on any bandwagon that will
> help me further my agenda" side.
>
> I'm wondering if this might be a good approach for countering at least
> some of the opposition, ie that the "anti" campaign is really after a
> bigger target which is *all* porn and they're just using the Longhurst
> case as a justification for their activities?
>
> What do people think?
>
> Cheers,
> Graham.
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
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> To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
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demolitionred, 13 Sep 2006 12:21:30

Martion Salter accused me -- and by extension you lot -- of defending all porn implying I would let peopel watch child porn....


rovacs, 13 Sep 2006 14:07:19

Moron Saltmines better watch his mouth.

Author wrote:
> Martion Salter accused me -- and by extension you lot -- of defending all porn implying I would let peopel watch child porn....


Teddy, 13 Sep 2006 23:55:48

He's a gobshite. In the sad realisation that "necrobabes" etc doesn't ACTUALLY feature people being killed on camera, he has to throw a bit of mud at the voices of reason, in the hope it sticks and helps to forward his lickspittle career...

T.

Author wrote:
> Martion Salter accused me -- and by extension you lot -- of defending all porn implying I would let peopel watch child porn....


phantom, 14 Sep 2006 18:03:29

I would agree with that to an extent.

As said 'politics is perception'. it's not the policies but the man with the
nicest smile who

wins elections these days.

it is not without reason that one camp is trying to paint the other as
sticky perverts and weirdos in macs who

are looking at abhorrent material. It's a powerful image and one difficult
to overcome. So, indeed,

perhaps it that same vein it does help to paint the supporters of the
proposal as people of a puritan

streak who are simply out to destroy the fun for others. Porn is about sex
and sex is about fun, right?

If religious groups who responded to the consultation were in favour of
banning violent porn, it's only fair to ask

if this means they wholeheartedly support legislation, found pretty much
everywhere in the western world,

which allows mainstream pornography. for if they don't then their support is
pretty meaningless..

In the Home's Office's camp on this issue are to be found militant feminists
who would ban page 3 tomorrow

and organizations such as mediawatch who would take us back to the 1950's
tomorrow.

some damage might indeed be done to the government's plans by showing what
company they keep.

but yes, it's a tricky one. one has to tread carefully, shouting abuse will
very quickly turn into an own goal.

yet, Vernon Coaker's allies on this are hardly members of 'Cool Britannia'..



Perhaps it would be worth drawing our own parallels. just as government
always likes to draw the analogy to child porn,

We should highlight the similarities between militant supporters of this
legislation and the militant animal rights activists who

rob graves for their cause. both are driven by zealotry of sorts. the animal
rights activists trying to shut down testing

laboratories in the UK are generally loathed.

regarding the question where next, it's worth noting that since the ban on
fox hunting there has been several violent attacks

on anglers. clearly it didn't stop there. once again, this could be another
parallel.



Phantom



_____

-OJT- [mailto:snowdrop-explodes@talk21.com], 14 Sep 2006 18:03:29
Sent: 09 September 2006 22:59



While it is poor logic, when seeking to persuade the public, ad hominem
attacks work.

I think that painting the supporters of this proposed law as being
unreasoning haters of all things sexual is a tactic that can work. The
fact that almost all the organisations to respond have been "ban all porn"
type people, this has some mileage in it, at least as far as the general
public are concerned - in terms of perception as opposed to logic, it looks
good.

And it offers that question - if you let them do this, what will they come
for next?

Ta,

SnowdropExplodes

graham wrote:

Hi there,

Having been looking through what's been written about these proposals in
various comments forums etc, something's occurred to me.

This debate seems to have become somewhat polarised into two camps:

1) The "I may not like it, but if you're an adult I'm not going to say
you can't look at it" side.

2) The "I'm anti-porn, so I'm going to jump on any bandwagon that will
help me further my agenda" side.

I'm wondering if this might be a good approach for countering at least
some of the opposition, ie that the "anti" campaign is really after a
bigger target which is *all* porn and they're just using the Longhurst
case as a justification for their activities?

What do people think?

Cheers,
Graham.




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Ms_Tytania, 14 Sep 2006 21:10:14

"Martion Salter accused me -- and by extension you lot -- of defending all
porn implying I would let peopel watch child porn...."

Relax baby, and have lots of patience: he's a politician. They spin. They
hit under the belt. And above everything else, they lie. Trouble is, the
media will go along with their lies too :(



Itziar Bilbao Urrutia

http://www.helloitzi.co.uk