Lazy New Member

Ben, 02 Sep 2006 14:37:04

Hi,

Just want to say, first of all, very heartening to see you guys doing what you are doing, so keep up the good work.

I've just joined the group, and I don't really enjoy trawling through lots of messages to glean a bit of info (it's my job to do this at work, so I prefer not to do this in my 'leisure' time as well!), so I have a couple of questions:

- What has backlash done/achieved so far, and what is in the pipeline - or is the public website a fair representation? I was hoping a timeline of your actions and achievements to date might be on the calendar of this group, but it appears to be empty.

- Is there any plan for a petition? I really think this would be a good idea. There are already several famous names who I'm sure would sign one, and I suggest that if a threshold was set as to how many people needed to sign up before it would be made public, then people would be happy to put their name to it. Might even be worth adding an optional clause to it for people to pledge a commitment to civil disobedience in the event the law came into effect, in which case, if there were enough responses the law would be completely unworkable.

Thanks,
Ben


Teddy, 02 Sep 2006 14:51:06

Hi Ben,

I would agree with the statement about civil disobedience. Just one possible line of attack if the politicians don't start listening.
As to a petition, it would be great if we really could get thousands of signatures; the BDSM and Backlash communities would be a start. However, I agree that some high profile support/organisation for this would be crucial to gain wider appeal. I doubt if any MP would have the guts to do so, unfortunately.

Teddy

Author wrote:
> Hi,
> Just want to say, first of all, very heartening to see you guys doing what you are doing, so keep up the good work.
> I've just joined the group, and I don't really enjoy trawling through lots of messages to glean a bit of info (it's my job to do this at work, so I prefer not to do this in my 'leisure' time as well!), so I have a couple of questions:
> - What has backlash done/achieved so far, and what is in the pipeline - or is the public website a fair representation? I was hoping a timeline of your actions and achievements to date might be on the calendar of this group, but it appears to be empty.
> - Is there any plan for a petition? I really think this would be a good idea. There are already several famous names who I'm sure would sign one, and I suggest that if a threshold was set as to how many people needed to sign up before it would be made public, then people would be happy to put their name to it. Might even be worth adding an optional clause to it for people to pledge a commitment to civil disobedience in the event the law came into effect, in which case, if there were enough responses the law would be completely unworkable.
> Thanks,
> Ben


rovacs, 02 Sep 2006 17:13:59

A petition is a good idea. A petition on the net. I think it could be very helpful-though some might fear putting their name on because it might bring unwarrented attention to them from the police later. There is safety in numbers to a degree. Actually I have no deeply personal sexual axe to grind on this-I am not interested at all in any kind of porn-I wish to see freedom prevail over the police state this regime is erecting(can I still write such a word and be safe from Bliar's moral gestapo?)

Author wrote:
> Hi Ben,
> I would agree with the statement about civil disobedience. Just one possible line of attack if the politicians don't start listening.
> As to a petition, it would be great if we really could get thousands of signatures; the BDSM and Backlash communities would be a start. However, I agree that some high profile support/organisation for this would be crucial to gain wider appeal. I doubt if any MP would have the guts to do so, unfortunately.
> Teddy
> Author wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Just want to say, first of all, very heartening to see you guys doing what you are doing, so keep up the good work.
> > I've just joined the group, and I don't really enjoy trawling through lots of messages to glean a bit of info (it's my job to do this at work, so I prefer not to do this in my 'leisure' time as well!), so I have a couple of questions:
> > - What has backlash done/achieved so far, and what is in the pipeline - or is the public website a fair representation? I was hoping a timeline of your actions and achievements to date might be on the calendar of this group, but it appears to be empty.
> > - Is there any plan for a petition? I really think this would be a good idea. There are already several famous names who I'm sure would sign one, and I suggest that if a threshold was set as to how many people needed to sign up before it would be made public, then people would be happy to put their name to it. Might even be worth adding an optional clause to it for people to pledge a commitment to civil disobedience in the event the law came into effect, in which case, if there were enough responses the law would be completely unworkable.
> > Thanks,
> > Ben


demolitionred, 02 Sep 2006 17:21:02

a petition can be found at www.unfettered.co.uk or on http://facnews.blogspot.com/



a brief outline of what we have done so far is here:

http://www.backlash-uk.org.uk/news.html


or here:

http://www.sfc.org.uk/conference2006-demored.html


as well as a petition we need help with lobbying, raising awareness, in graphics, in organising action..


mail me on demolitionred@yahoo.com if you want to help...


some ideas are now on the homepage.

Author wrote:
> A petition is a good idea. A petition on the net. I think it could be very helpful-though some might fear putting their name on because it might bring unwarrented attention to them from the police later. There is safety in numbers to a degree. Actually I have no deeply personal sexual axe to grind on this-I am not interested at all in any kind of porn-I wish to see freedom prevail over the police state this regime is erecting(can I still write such a word and be safe from Bliar's moral gestapo?)
> Author wrote:
> > Hi Ben,
> > I would agree with the statement about civil disobedience. Just one possible line of attack if the politicians don't start listening.
> > As to a petition, it would be great if we really could get thousands of signatures; the BDSM and Backlash communities would be a start. However, I agree that some high profile support/organisation for this would be crucial to gain wider appeal. I doubt if any MP would have the guts to do so, unfortunately.
> > Teddy
> > Author wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > Just want to say, first of all, very heartening to see you guys doing what you are doing, so keep up the good work.
> > > I've just joined the group, and I don't really enjoy trawling through lots of messages to glean a bit of info (it's my job to do this at work, so I prefer not to do this in my 'leisure' time as well!), so I have a couple of questions:
> > > - What has backlash done/achieved so far, and what is in the pipeline - or is the public website a fair representation? I was hoping a timeline of your actions and achievements to date might be on the calendar of this group, but it appears to be empty.
> > > - Is there any plan for a petition? I really think this would be a good idea. There are already several famous names who I'm sure would sign one, and I suggest that if a threshold was set as to how many people needed to sign up before it would be made public, then people would be happy to put their name to it. Might even be worth adding an optional clause to it for people to pledge a commitment to civil disobedience in the event the law came into effect, in which case, if there were enough responses the law would be completely unworkable.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Ben


rovacs, 02 Sep 2006 18:00:30

Right-well ignorant me who has droned on about this all over the place wasn't aware of it,so it maybe needs more publicity.

Author wrote:
> a petition can be found at www.unfettered.co.uk or on http://facnews.blogspot.com/
> a brief outline of what we have done so far is here:
> http://www.backlash-uk.org.uk/news.html
> or here:
> http://www.sfc.org.uk/conference2006-demored.html
> as well as a petition we need help with lobbying, raising awareness, in graphics, in organising action..
> mail me on demolitionred@yahoo.com if you want to help...
> some ideas are now on the homepage.
> Author wrote:
> > A petition is a good idea. A petition on the net. I think it could be very helpful-though some might fear putting their name on because it might bring unwarrented attention to them from the police later. There is safety in numbers to a degree. Actually I have no deeply personal sexual axe to grind on this-I am not interested at all in any kind of porn-I wish to see freedom prevail over the police state this regime is erecting(can I still write such a word and be safe from Bliar's moral gestapo?)
> > Author wrote:
> > > Hi Ben,
> > > I would agree with the statement about civil disobedience. Just one possible line of attack if the politicians don't start listening.
> > > As to a petition, it would be great if we really could get thousands of signatures; the BDSM and Backlash communities would be a start. However, I agree that some high profile support/organisation for this would be crucial to gain wider appeal. I doubt if any MP would have the guts to do so, unfortunately.
> > > Teddy
> > > Author wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > Just want to say, first of all, very heartening to see you guys doing what you are doing, so keep up the good work.
> > > > I've just joined the group, and I don't really enjoy trawling through lots of messages to glean a bit of info (it's my job to do this at work, so I prefer not to do this in my 'leisure' time as well!), so I have a couple of questions:
> > > > - What has backlash done/achieved so far, and what is in the pipeline - or is the public website a fair representation? I was hoping a timeline of your actions and achievements to date might be on the calendar of this group, but it appears to be empty.
> > > > - Is there any plan for a petition? I really think this would be a good idea. There are already several famous names who I'm sure would sign one, and I suggest that if a threshold was set as to how many people needed to sign up before it would be made public, then people would be happy to put their name to it. Might even be worth adding an optional clause to it for people to pledge a commitment to civil disobedience in the event the law came into effect, in which case, if there were enough responses the law would be completely unworkable.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Ben


Ben, 02 Sep 2006 18:55:16

Hi,

Thanks for the info.

I see you are updating the website since I last looked yesterday, which is good.

A few suggestions, while I think of them, i will be a bit more organised later:

- There should be a link to the petition on the backlash website, as a lot of other sites are pointing here.

- You should ask people on the petition whether they are willing to have their name publicised. As I said, a few high profile names on the website with their name openly on such a petition will encourage other people to sign up. Various public figures people have already expressed their opposition to the proposals, so I don't see how they would object to signing this.

- It might be necessary to strip the text down even further though, so there's nothing to disagree with - i.e.

'I am against the government's proposed 'Violent Pornography' law - I do not think it will achieve the intended effect, but it will waste of resources and ruin innocent people's reputations in the attempt'.

Have you done much networking in terms of contacting prominent figures? I would say particular important to get openly signed up are not the obvious bdsm community and libertarians but:











Author wrote:
> a petition can be found at www.unfettered.co.uk or on http://facnews.blogspot.com/
> a brief outline of what we have done so far is here:
> http://www.backlash-uk.org.uk/news.html
> or here:
> http://www.sfc.org.uk/conference2006-demored.html
> as well as a petition we need help with lobbying, raising awareness, in graphics, in organising action..
> mail me on demolitionred@yahoo.com if you want to help...
> some ideas are now on the homepage.
> Author wrote:
> > A petition is a good idea. A petition on the net. I think it could be very helpful-though some might fear putting their name on because it might bring unwarrented attention to them from the police later. There is safety in numbers to a degree. Actually I have no deeply personal sexual axe to grind on this-I am not interested at all in any kind of porn-I wish to see freedom prevail over the police state this regime is erecting(can I still write such a word and be safe from Bliar's moral gestapo?)
> > Author wrote:
> > > Hi Ben,
> > > I would agree with the statement about civil disobedience. Just one possible line of attack if the politicians don't start listening.
> > > As to a petition, it would be great if we really could get thousands of signatures; the BDSM and Backlash communities would be a start. However, I agree that some high profile support/organisation for this would be crucial to gain wider appeal. I doubt if any MP would have the guts to do so, unfortunately.
> > > Teddy
> > > Author wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > Just want to say, first of all, very heartening to see you guys doing what you are doing, so keep up the good work.
> > > > I've just joined the group, and I don't really enjoy trawling through lots of messages to glean a bit of info (it's my job to do this at work, so I prefer not to do this in my 'leisure' time as well!), so I have a couple of questions:
> > > > - What has backlash done/achieved so far, and what is in the pipeline - or is the public website a fair representation? I was hoping a timeline of your actions and achievements to date might be on the calendar of this group, but it appears to be empty.
> > > > - Is there any plan for a petition? I really think this would be a good idea. There are already several famous names who I'm sure would sign one, and I suggest that if a threshold was set as to how many people needed to sign up before it would be made public, then people would be happy to put their name to it. Might even be worth adding an optional clause to it for people to pledge a commitment to civil disobedience in the event the law came into effect, in which case, if there were enough responses the law would be completely unworkable.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Ben


Ben, 02 Sep 2006 18:59:42

Hmm, I got cut off in full flow - something to do with pressing tab?

Anyway, I was going to list a few groups of people who it would help to have signed up:

a) Artists/literary types
b) Musicians
c) Academic authorities in law, psychology, economics and sociology
d) performers willing to state they're not being exploited and resent the inference!!

I reckon a bit of internet research would quickly find people from each category, and I'd be happy to approach them, or draft an email at least.


Ben, 02 Sep 2006 19:51:11

Almost forgot, possibly the most important thing (though it pains me to say it) would be to have at least one politician promise to put the case against in parliament - any luck on that front?


Graham Marsden, 02 Sep 2006 20:17:15

Hi there,

Teddysmith2@hotmail.co.uk wrote:

> As to a petition, it would be great if we really could get thousands
> of signatures; the BDSM and Backlash communities would be a start.
> However, I agree that some high profile support/organisation for this
> would be crucial to gain wider appeal. I doubt if any MP would have
> the guts to do so, unfortunately.

IMO the number of people posting condemnations on the various Comment
Forums is actually better than any petition because they haven't just
stuck their name on a piece of paper, they've written something even if
they didn't respond to the Consultation.

Cheers,
Graham.


Ben, 02 Sep 2006 20:27:23

> IMO the number of people posting condemnations on the various Comment
> Forums is actually better than any petition because they haven't just
> stuck their name on a piece of paper, they've written something even if
> they didn't respond to the Consultation.
> Cheers,
> Graham.

Hi Graham,

I agree that somebody making the effort to write a comment is encouraging.

But my concern about this is that comment forums are anonymous, and it's easy for people to shrug them off along the lines of - 'of course there are going to be lots of anti-the-law comments on the internet, because that's where all the violent porn abusers go - how do we know they're not all written by the same 5 people?' Whereas if you have a signature then it's tangible proof of somebody's commitment.

Obviously the ideal situation would be a signed letter. But I think there is definitely something compelling about a countable list of individuals who all agree. If a list of petitioners was published (where they consented to their names being made known) then the list could also link to their more detailed published coments.


rovacs, 02 Sep 2006 21:09:36

Neatto letter in the Thunderer Graham-3 there and all against-good stuff!
Hope the columnists in the papers crucify them tomorrow-well Blair thinks he's the Messiah!-rovacs


Author wrote:
> Hi there,
> Teddysmith2@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> > As to a petition, it would be great if we really could get thousands
> > of signatures; the BDSM and Backlash communities would be a start.
> > However, I agree that some high profile support/organisation for this
> > would be crucial to gain wider appeal. I doubt if any MP would have
> > the guts to do so, unfortunately.
> IMO the number of people posting condemnations on the various Comment
> Forums is actually better than any petition because they haven't just
> stuck their name on a piece of paper, they've written something even if
> they didn't respond to the Consultation.
> Cheers,
> Graham.


Paul Tavener, 03 Sep 2006 00:21:57

Is it possible to get a few people out on the streets and ask people to physicaly sign up? Would have to be carefully worded but it might just work. If sufficient numbers could be gathered then it might be quite an embarrisment for the Govenment.

On a general point it would be good if when people respond to website blogs / papers etc that they appear angry. This would have a sobbering effect on the likes of Mr Salter et al who use the angry man tactic to impress people that "this is realy serious"

Author wrote:
> > IMO the number of people posting condemnations on the various Comment
> > Forums is actually better than any petition because they haven't just
> > stuck their name on a piece of paper, they've written something even if
> > they didn't respond to the Consultation.
> > Cheers,
> > Graham.
> Hi Graham,
> I agree that somebody making the effort to write a comment is encouraging.
> But my concern about this is that comment forums are anonymous, and it's easy for people to shrug them off along the lines of - 'of course there are going to be lots of anti-the-law comments on the internet, because that's where all the violent porn abusers go - how do we know they're not all written by the same 5 people?' Whereas if you have a signature then it's tangible proof of somebody's commitment.
> Obviously the ideal situation would be a signed letter. But I think there is definitely something compelling about a countable list of individuals who all agree. If a list of petitioners was published (where they consented to their names being made known) then the list could also link to their more detailed published coments.