we need to be working harder on this
demolitionred, 30 Aug 2006 13:20:05
we really do need to step up the campaigning.
there was a news announcement this morning and people hadn't heard of the proposals....wtf?
I have been asking for help from people for weeks, nay months, who can do graphics, people willing to attend the party and trade union conferences, peopel who are willing to post messages on groups, websites, write to MPS, newspapers, the Home Office, people with suggestions on what we could do better.
This has largely fallen on stony ground. while there have been words of support, some money given, I also need help with the practical every day activities of a campaign group.
Please do help. Please pass this message on
demolitionred@yahoo.com
volunteer@backlash-uk.org.uk
Graham Marsden, 01 Sep 2006 14:16:58
Hi there,
demolitionred@yahoo.com wrote:
> I have been asking for help from people for weeks, nay months, who
> can do graphics, people willing to attend the party and trade union
> conferences, peopel who are willing to post messages on groups,
> websites, write to MPS, newspapers, the Home Office, people with
> suggestions on what we could do better.
Well I've done everything on that list from "willing to messages on
groups" onwards, but I do have a business to run and I'm sure other
people have calls on their time too and I'm also sure that nobody's
saying "well, I'm worried, but I'll let others do the work".
I do consider this an important issue, but I can't deal with it to the
exclusion of all else, nor, I'm sure can most others.
Having said that, writing or e-mailing your MP is not difficult see
http://theyworkforyou.com/ so if anyone's not done that in light of the
recent news, I do urge them to do so now.
Cheers,
Graham.
SnowdropExplodes, 01 Sep 2006 14:30:38
demolitionred@yahoo.com wrote:
I have been asking for help from people for weeks, nay months, who can do graphics, people willing to attend the party and trade union conferences, peopel who are willing to post messages on groups, websites, write to MPS, newspapers, the Home Office, people with suggestions on what we could do better.
This has largely fallen on stony ground. while there have been words of support, some money given, I also need help with the practical every day activities of a campaign group.
I've volunteered to do all sorts of things, but nobody has actually told me what I'm supposed to do, what's involved in doing it, or what material/information/items it needs doing to.
Some things, like writing to my MP, spreading the word, etc, I've been fairly able to work out for myself, but when it came to things like party conferences, I didn't have a clue what I was supposed to do about it once I'd volunteered.
It would really help if there were a clearer indication of what specifically is wanted, so that people can actually get on with it instead of volunteering and then waiting to be told.
Ta,
SnowdropExplodes
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rovacs, 01 Sep 2006 23:14:20
As I have posted,I think the best approach is from the human rights angle-and getting the Home Office bombarded with protest letters by telling as many as you can to write against such a law as this. The reception to this idiotic stuff was not the roar of approval they expected-a lot of people know how bad these proposals are-there is no "consensus" like over child porn-there are too many potential victims of such a draconian mess-many fear with reason for their liberty from such a totalitarian law as has been proposed. John Reid is probably the guy to address the protests to. I have left quite a bit on the human rights issue on other messages. I am certain after carefully studying it this "law" completely contravenes serious Human rights obligations and is incompatible with the Convention and that they have no arguments that hold water to justify it and permit an exemption to be made for it under their human rights committments.
As to the substance of what should be done.First compile a detailed dossier on how and why it is abusive to human rights and "incompatible".
An important thing which needs to be discovered is-
1.What if any legal advice was given re. the Human Rights Act/ Convention in drawing up the proposals. I have doubts there was much-or even any.
2.Who gave it-if anyone did.
This will require getting the info. from the Home Office
Goggin's words about the Longhurst case seems very important here Goggin's made a statement saying Jane Longhurst would still be alive etc if it hadn't been for these "sites" on the net. To my mind this is highly relevant to a case based on the human rights "rules",as it deals with necessity and justification for legislation which impacts on human rights.
It would need to be seen-
1. How far the Court case actually "supports" such an assertion from Goggins-is in fact this statement in any way backed up by the evidence in the court case,or is it Goggins making unsupported assumptions off the top of his head,larded with his own opinions/prejudices from a superficial knowledge of the details. If as I suspect the latter,this seriously undermines an already rotten justification,mired as it is in a solitary case. If the statement by Goggins is clearly opinion,without solid evidential foundation from the case itself this would further undermine and devalue any "proven necessity" claims this Government might try to make to defend the existence of a law which takes away rights guaranteed by Articles 8 and 10 of the Convention.
2 .If Coutt's wins his Appeal-if-and this is prior to the actual passage of the legislation-and he has his conviction reduced. This would further undermine the justifications used by the Government which refered to the "murder" in the Consultation document and all the attendant campaign/propaganda from the case which inspired the nasty proposals. It may remove the picture painted of Jane Longhurst as "passive victim" of Coutts. This significant information should be included in the dossier. Of course the merits of the case against the legislation on human rights grounds in no way coast on the innocence of murder of Coutts himself,but would certainly help undermine the Government's weak and specious "justifications" even more.
The dossier should only be completed after the White Paper and all amendments have been made by the Lords and in Committee and after it has completed its passage thru both Houses of Parliament-for only then is it possible to know precisely what we have-and to complete a critique on the matter of the human rights implications of the legislation. But it might be a good idea to send an initial draft of the dossier,based on the preliminary information from the Green Paper to the Committee which revues legislation re human rights and to sympathetic libertarian members of the Commons,the opposition leaders and Home Affairs Shadows and libertarian Lords as well. This might lead to meaningful amendment of the Act that appears- you can always hope! Copies of the final dossier to the Lord Chancellor and all the Law Lords. Copy to the European Court itself. After the passage of the legislation-if it is still dreadful-it needs to be established-can an Appeal be made immediately by a group/individual on the grounds of incompatibility domestically on the basis of the Human Rights Act or to Strasbourg on the basis of the Convention. Reading the guidance,it seems to me Appeal does NOT necessarily have to wait for a conviction or a move against a group/individual-it can be done on the basis of a person/group believing something could deprive them of their protected rights as given under the Convention-maybe under the domestic HRA(I am not sure of this and would need to check further)
So the main thing needed right now is for a beginning to be made on a good strong attack on the proposed law on human rights grounds. Fortunately lots of the detail has been dug out already by Rabinder Singh QC and others who responded to the Consultation.
Author wrote:
> demolitionred@yahoo.com wrote:
> I have been asking for help from people for weeks, nay months, who can do graphics, people willing to attend the party and trade union conferences, peopel who are willing to post messages on groups, websites, write to MPS, newspapers, the Home Office, people with suggestions on what we could do better.
> This has largely fallen on stony ground. while there have been words of support, some money given, I also need help with the practical every day activities of a campaign group.
> I've volunteered to do all sorts of things, but nobody has actually told me what I'm supposed to do, what's involved in doing it, or what material/information/items it needs doing to.
> Some things, like writing to my MP, spreading the word, etc, I've been fairly able to work out for myself, but when it came to things like party conferences, I didn't have a clue what I was supposed to do about it once I'd volunteered.
> It would really help if there were a clearer indication of what specifically is wanted, so that people can actually get on with it instead of volunteering and then waiting to be told.
> Ta,
> SnowdropExplodes
> ---------------------------------
> The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.
*** This message has been edited by rovacs on 01 Sep 2006 23:23:56 ***