Blair loses terror vote.
AV8R, 10 Nov 2005 00:54:56
There was much made today in the media of the labour rebels supporting civil rights....
I assume someone is tracking those votes?
Paul C. Dickie, 10 Nov 2005 02:33:11
In message <2853564.1131584097129.JavaMail.root@thallium.smartgroups.com
>, av8r0344@hotmail.com wrote:
>There was much made today in the media of the labour rebels supporting civil
>rights....
>
>I assume someone is tracking those votes?
Apart from the Whips Office?
Some of the Labour rebels may have voted against Blair not so much
because they have a high regard for civil rights but because they rather
resented being effectively told what to do by the police. For a
government to do what it claims the police want it to do is downright
dangerous; at best, it looks like a case of the tail wagging the dog
and, at worst, it can quickly lead to a totalitarian, police state.
Had the police requested that they be permitted to use thumb-screws and
other means of physical 'persuasion', would Blair have been so eager to
fall in line?
--
< Paul >
demolitionred, 10 Nov 2005 11:17:17
AV8R if you could do that, it'd be great. Once completed, list can be published on the homepage of the website and we can contact them and advise constituents to contact them too.
Grant Denkinson, 10 Nov 2005 11:35:10
Grant
clare, 10 Nov 2005 11:36:16
Author wrote:
> AV8R if you could do that, it'd be great. Once completed, list can be published on the homepage of the website and we can contact them and advise constituents to contact them too.
The Times did it last night:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,17129-1865871,00.html
Manniq, 10 Nov 2005 11:36:35
Well, on t'Lobbying front, am trying to keep stuff co-ordinated. Amelie is working her way through letters to MPs - which does not preclude anyone else doing so, but might make it worth asking, first, as to what, if any, feedback we have had already before writing.
(That might enable writers to tailor their own letter a bit more specifically).
The vote was interesting - but also a bit of a so what. Anyone following politics locally will most likely know if THEIR MP was a rebel - but how they voted on this one issue says little as to how they will vote 18 months down the line on a totally different issue.
Jeremy Corbyn and Jane Fonda, for instance, are two MP's we already have down as highly worth targeting. Bob Marshall-Andrews, despite his generally outspoken views, willingness to advocate civil liberties views, etc. seems - from other feedback we have - to be not a good prospect. Sadiq Khan probably voted against for reasons of his ethnic constituency, as much as his views on civil liberties.
The full list is here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4422890.stm
Note: there are also 14 Labour MP's who did not vote. A little bit of digging is needed to work out whether those were deliberate abstentions - or whether any of them were paired. Since only 6 Tories abstained, that suggests a maximum of 6 pairs - so 8 more potential rebels. But which ones?
Reagrds,
M
Author wrote:
> AV8R if you could do that, it'd be great. Once completed, list can be published on the homepage of the website and we can contact them and advise constituents to contact them too.
Paul C. Dickie, 10 Nov 2005 11:48:45
In message <5580178.1131622595784.JavaMail.root@thallium.smartgroups.com
>, manniq@hotmail.com wrote:
>Jeremy Corbyn and Jane Fonda, for instance, are two MP's we already
>have down as highly worth targeting.
Jane Fonda?
Did you mean Claire Short, perhaps?
--
< Paul >
Paul C. Dickie, 10 Nov 2005 11:49:27
In message <2853564.1131584097129.JavaMail.root@thallium.smartgroups.com
>, av8r0344@hotmail.com wrote:
>There was much made today in the media of the labour rebels supporting civil
>rights....
>
>I assume someone is tracking those votes?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4422890.stm
HTH.
--
< Paul >
Graham Marsden, 10 Nov 2005 13:46:09
Paul C. Dickie wrote:
> Had the police requested that they be permitted to use thumb-screws and
> other means of physical 'persuasion', would Blair have been so eager to
> fall in line?
Well they're quite happy to let foreign governments do it for us...
"A high court appeal in August found that it was lawful for the British
government to use information obtained under torture by foreign
governments to avert an imminent attack, but there was no evidence that
it had done so in the case of the detainees held in British jails."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/guantanamo/story/0,13743,1318702,00.html
Cheers,
Graham.
adrian, 10 Nov 2005 20:33:36
On 10/11/05, Paul C. Dickie wrote:
> >I assume someone is tracking those votes?
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4422890.stm
>
The Times has done a nice description of each rebel's position and a
'Future rebel rating' for each.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,17129-1865871,00.html
demolitionred, 11 Nov 2005 09:44:21
so does someone want to set about co-ordinating a team looking for constituents for the most likely supporters, contacting them, arranging meetings, etc?
Manniq, 11 Nov 2005 09:50:53
Dem....this is what I am already doing...it sort of comes under Lobbying...and as suggested several times, is a long slow process.
End game: on some distant night, two years from now, we want 34 Labour MP's to vote against any bill coming out of this proposal. Start point is that our tally is currently nil. And if we do a 'bull in a china shop thing' with it, our tally will STILL be nil in two years.
Softly, softly and all that....
Regards,
M
Author wrote:
> so does someone want to set about co-ordinating a team looking for constituents for the most likely supporters, contacting them, arranging meetings, etc?