Where are the "none public work groups?"
Silver, 05 Nov 2005 16:29:41
It seems no doubt 'Backlash' has completely lost it way. Now I am told things are happening behind the scene which we cannot be told about.
Would you give money to an organisation that is closed to it's own members so undemocratic that decisions are made and actioned in secret?
On on who's behalf are these decisions made? What haven't I, or other been invited to join this secret organisation?
I wonder how many are prepared to move to a new campaign that wants to work to defeat this bill from a sane and democratic base. If so please email me direct. I am at this stage only interested in seeing how many are disenchanted with the progress of 'backlash.'
rosalee, 05 Nov 2005 17:16:27
Not discussing some of our activities in such a public forum as this is *not* the same as doing them in secret. Work has been going on in the sub groups, which anyone can ask to join. You have had the opportunity to become more involved the same way as the rest of us have. I find your attitude a little odd to be frank. And some of your comments in a previous post re:who should be allowed to be involved in this campaign quite offensive. Just who's side are you on?
Ginny
----- Original Message -----
: flagoftheunion@hotmail.com, 05 Nov 2005 17:16:27
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 4:29 PM
Subject: [backlash] Where are the "none public work groups?"
It seems no doubt 'Backlash' has completely lost it way. Now I am told things are happening behind the scene which we cannot be told about.
Would you give money to an organisation that is closed to it's own members so undemocratic that decisions are made and actioned in secret?
On on who's behalf are these decisions made? What haven't I, or other been invited to join this secret organisation?
I wonder how many are prepared to move to a new campaign that wants to work to defeat this bill from a sane and democratic base. If so please email me direct. I am at this stage only interested in seeing how many are disenchanted with the progress of 'backlash.'
--
If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
Report abuse http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D3070
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message.html (text/html)
Thunder, 05 Nov 2005 17:33:27
In message <005701c5e22b$af04ddd0$9600a8c0@Laptop>, rosalee
writes
>Not discussing some of our activities in such a public forum as this is
>*not* the same as doing them in secret. Work has been going on in the
>sub groups, which anyone can ask to join. You have had the opportunity
>to become more involved the same way as the rest of us have. I find
>your attitude a little odd to be frank. And some of your comments in a
>previous post re:who should be allowed to be involved in this campaign
>quite offensive. Just who's side are you on?
>
>Ginny
Somehow a "certain suspicion" about this person arises as did the
(proved) suspicion about a year ago about an attack disguised as one on
a well respected member of the BDSM community but in reality by someone
connected with another organisation.
--
^Thunder^
Graham Marsden, 05 Nov 2005 17:48:59
flagoftheunion@hotmail.com wrote:
> It seems no doubt 'Backlash' has completely lost it way. Now I am
> told things are happening behind the scene which we cannot be
> told about.
>
> Would you give money to an organisation that is closed to it's
> own members so undemocratic that decisions are made and actioned
> in secret?
>
> On on who's behalf are these decisions made? What haven't I, or
> other been invited to join this secret organisation?
Silver, once again it appears that all you are demonstrating here is
that you are completely out of touch with what is going on, presumably
because you have only joined recently and have not taken the time to
bring yourself up to speed with previous discussions.
I suggest you go to http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/backlash and
register on there. You will then be able to access a complete record of
the discussions and debates which have covered the vast majority of the
points you bring up.
> I wonder how many are prepared to move to a new campaign that
> wants to work to defeat this bill from a sane and democratic base.
> If so please email me direct. I am at this stage only interested
> in seeing how many are disenchanted with the progress of 'backlash.'
In a recent message you said "there will be those who pretend to be in
our ranks and will be more than happy for us to remain a talking shop
and chatter all the way to the new legislation is on the statue books.
Let's not be fooled not everybody on this group has good intentions."
I hope that such statements cannot be applied to your contributions.
If you do not feel that Backlash fits in with your views of how this
campaign should be fought, then please, feel free to go elsewhere and,
perhaps, even start your own organisation, but please do not attempt to
do it by what appears to be an attempt to disrupt this one.
Cheers,
Graham.
Amelie, 05 Nov 2005 18:10:54
I am become sorry if our attempts to become better informed about just what
the group is doing seem to have backfired. Both silver and I have been
present at MissUse, I as ringmistress/switch and he as a puppy girl/slave
where we are known to Graham and others, also as active founder members of
the IOW munch. We are not criticising the work done so far, just trying to
understand from a distance and decide where and how we can add our weight,
since physical involvement is so difficult. But if we are to quote the
group we need to know its strengths and be certain we want to be identified
with it.
We might be more use opposing the bill as psychologist and former
Parliamentary candidate than as lifestyle Mistress and slave, although we
are happy to confess to both.
As for joining groups, I seem to have become a researcher by default by
answering specific questions as well as I was able and I am glad if any of
it was of use, but I expected my input to be generally available and to have
the input to other groups available to me.
We also hoped to be able to invite others to become involved in the
movement in the confidence that it would be easy to access and to
understand and that any monies we donated, raised etc, would be responsibly
handled. As it stands, if I were offerred a thousand pounds tomorrow, I
could not tell the donor where it should go or how it would be held or
distributed.
This does not seem to make a lot of sense. We both feel as if we have
repeatedly offerred our help and hit a brick wall.
Amelie
----- Original Message -----
"rosalee" , 05 Nov 2005 18:10:54
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 5:09 PM
Not discussing some of our activities in such a public forum as this is
*not* the same as doing them in secret. Work has been going on in the sub
groups, which anyone can ask to join. You have had the opportunity to
become more involved the same way as the rest of us have. I find your
attitude a little odd to be frank. And some of your comments in a previous
post re:who should be allowed to be involved in this campaign quite
offensive. Just who's side are you on?
Ginny
----- Original Message -----
: flagoftheunion@hotmail.com, 05 Nov 2005 18:10:54
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 4:29 PM
Subject: [backlash] Where are the "none public work groups?"
It seems no doubt 'Backlash' has completely lost it way. Now I am told
things are happening behind the scene which we cannot be told about.
Would you give money to an organisation that is closed to it's own members
so undemocratic that decisions are made and actioned in secret?
On on who's behalf are these decisions made? What haven't I, or other been
invited to join this secret organisation?
I wonder how many are prepared to move to a new campaign that wants to
work to defeat this bill from a sane and democratic base. If so please email
me direct. I am at this stage only interested in seeing how many are
disenchanted with the progress of 'backlash.'
--
If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
Report abuse
http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D3070
Amelie, 05 Nov 2005 18:24:47
Graham, I am just as bewildered as silver, especially since we are working
side by side but seem to get different messages - I get some and he gets
others which seems to prove that to date we have each missed quite a few. I
do not find the site at all easy to navigate and am constantly amazed by
references to things that do not appear to have been mentioned before.
Also a number of you seem to be amazingly defensive, vide the flak drawn by
a joking reference to this rebellion being too big for the Maid's Academy.
Heavens. some of our best friends are TV's. By all means involve everyone,
but do not set us up for defeat by being too confrontational. We have to
live, function and fight in the real world.
If we are to come out and align ourselves with other bdsmers, we need to be
assured that they are as safe and sane as ourselves! Most of the players we
know are intelligent, capable and creative, known in the vanilla world for
their achievements in various fields and it is this aspect, allied to a
sympathetic and possibly amusing presentation of our predilections that
will, we feel, lead to wider acceptance, not confrontation designed to shock
and offend.
Amelie
----- Original Message -----
"graham" , 05 Nov 2005 18:24:47
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 5:45 PM
>
>
> flagoftheunion@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> It seems no doubt 'Backlash' has completely lost it way. Now I am
> > told things are happening behind the scene which we cannot be
> > told about.
>>
>> Would you give money to an organisation that is closed to it's
> > own members so undemocratic that decisions are made and actioned
> > in secret?
>>
>> On on who's behalf are these decisions made? What haven't I, or
> > other been invited to join this secret organisation?
>
> Silver, once again it appears that all you are demonstrating here is
> that you are completely out of touch with what is going on, presumably
> because you have only joined recently and have not taken the time to
> bring yourself up to speed with previous discussions.
>
> I suggest you go to http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/backlash and
> register on there. You will then be able to access a complete record of
> the discussions and debates which have covered the vast majority of the
> points you bring up.
>
>> I wonder how many are prepared to move to a new campaign that
> > wants to work to defeat this bill from a sane and democratic base.
> > If so please email me direct. I am at this stage only interested
> > in seeing how many are disenchanted with the progress of 'backlash.'
>
> In a recent message you said "there will be those who pretend to be in
> our ranks and will be more than happy for us to remain a talking shop
> and chatter all the way to the new legislation is on the statue books.
> Let's not be fooled not everybody on this group has good intentions."
>
> I hope that such statements cannot be applied to your contributions.
>
> If you do not feel that Backlash fits in with your views of how this
> campaign should be fought, then please, feel free to go elsewhere and,
> perhaps, even start your own organisation, but please do not attempt to
> do it by what appears to be an attempt to disrupt this one.
>
> Cheers,
> Graham.
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>
> To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>
> Report abuse
> http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D3076
>
>
MsDemmie, 05 Nov 2005 18:29:00
If you go to the Smart groups home page
http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/backlash you will find a search box ........ if you put work group in there it will bring up all the conversations about workgroups.
SnowdropExplodes, 05 Nov 2005 18:41:13
--- Amelie wrote:
> We are not criticising the work done
> so far, just trying to
> understand from a distance and decide where and how
> we can add our weight,
> since physical involvement is so difficult. But if
> we are to quote the
> group we need to know its strengths and be certain
> we want to be identified
> with it.
>
> We might be more use opposing the bill as
> psychologist and former
> Parliamentary candidate than as lifestyle Mistress
> and slave, although we
> are happy to confess to both.
>
> As for joining groups, I seem to have become a
> researcher by default by
> answering specific questions as well as I was able
> and I am glad if any of
> it was of use, but I expected my input to be
> generally available and to have
> the input to other groups available to me.
>
> We also hoped to be able to invite others to
> become involved in the
> movement in the confidence that it would be easy
> to access and to
> understand and that any monies we donated, raised
> etc, would be responsibly
> handled. As it stands, if I were offerred a
> thousand pounds tomorrow, I
> could not tell the donor where it should go or how
> it would be held or
> distributed.
>
> This does not seem to make a lot of sense. We both
> feel as if we have
> repeatedly offerred our help and hit a brick wall.
This makes sense, and these are questions that do need
to be answered.
This is not how Silver's comments came across.
Silver came here, telling us how we had to do things,
telling us that we are disorganised, have no
direction, are just a talking shop, that nothing is
happening and so on.
This was combative, aggressive, offensive and, to
some, insulting.
I agree that we need to have more transparency with
what has been done with the various groups; the
research group it has been stated, is there to answer
specific questions that people raise, rather than just
fishing randomly for more bits and pieces. It has to
be said, most of the people here probably don't have
any direct use for the data you've been posting:
frequently, I for one feel simply overwhelmed by it
rather than finding it any use.
I do not even recall what the other groups are, let
alone what they were doing last time we had reports
from them. It may be that the things people have
been posting as individuals have actually been the
reuslt of the various groups' work, but that hasn't
been clear.
I also agree that we have far too little information
about the current situation as regarding the funds,
how they are being handled, what has been spent so far
and on what.
It may be necessary to find a way to consult the group
on authorising use of funds, and maybe we need to have
the debate now on how we'll handle that.
So I back the call for some more accountability and
transparency for the group's organisation.
Ta,
SnowdropExplodes
___________________________________________________________
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
SnowdropExplodes, 05 Nov 2005 18:56:51
--- Amelie wrote:
> Graham, I am just as bewildered as silver,
> especially since we are working
> side by side but seem to get different messages - I
> get some and he gets
> others which seems to prove that to date we have
> each missed quite a few. I
> do not find the site at all easy to navigate and am
> constantly amazed by
> references to things that do not appear to have been
> mentioned before.
The failure to receive messages is a technical issue
that I cannot answer (all the messages are on the
Smartgroups page; if you feel you are missing
messages, maybe you should read them on the site
instead?). The site (I am assuming you mean the
backlash site, not the Smartgroups site?) can be fixed
if you explain what is difficult about it.
>
> Also a number of you seem to be amazingly defensive,
> vide the flak drawn by
> a joking reference to this rebellion being too big
> for the Maid's Academy.
> Heavens. some of our best friends are TV's. By all
> means involve everyone,
> but do not set us up for defeat by being too
> confrontational. We have to
> live, function and fight in the real world.
The defensiveness has come entirely from Silver's
confrontational and aggressive approach to presenting
his queries, that has put a lot of people's backs up.
We have debated most of the things that he's
mentioned, and come up with our answers that are
serving quite well for the time being. At times when
he's posted I've felt like I was in a timewarp to 6-8
weeks ago.
As for the approach to take, we haven't reached that
debate yet. personally, I think a mixture of the two
will work best, so that we neither deny who we are and
what we do, nor shove it in people's faces non-stop.
>
> If we are to come out and align ourselves with other
> bdsmers, we need to be
> assured that they are as safe and sane as ourselves!
> Most of the players we
> know are intelligent, capable and creative, known in
> the vanilla world for
> their achievements in various fields and it is this
> aspect, allied to a
> sympathetic and possibly amusing presentation of
> our predilections that
> will, we feel, lead to wider acceptance, not
> confrontation designed to shock
> and offend.
I believe that, as far as this has been discussed so
far, this is the concensus that has been reached.
One or two "shock" events may serve to grab headlines
(and be amusing), but the main thing to do is to steer
a middle path that lets people see us in the bets
light possible.
Ta,
SnowdropExplodes
___________________________________________________________
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
Graham Marsden, 05 Nov 2005 19:01:07
Amelie wrote:
> I am become sorry if our attempts to become better informed about just what
> the group is doing seem to have backfired.
The problem seems to be that effectively someone has walked into an
established organisation and, instead of getting themselves up to speed
with what is happening started with "Why don't you do this? What about
that? Wouldn't be a good idea if you have a group that...?"
The response to these have been "We do do this. We thought about that
but decided it wasn't for us. There are already groups, what can you do?
We'll point you in the direction of the right for your skills".
Unfortunately we seem to then be accused of not being "sane" or
"democratic" because we haven't gone over old ground again or given
answers that satisfy the newcomer who then wants to "headhunt" people
from this group and start a new one more to his liking.
> Both silver and I have been present at MissUse, I as ringmistress/switch
> and he as a puppy girl/slave where we are known to Graham and others,
> also as active founder members of the IOW munch.
As I have just explained in an e-mail to Silver, I meet a lot of people
through my work and since I have a lousy memory for names and faces I
*do not* remember them.
(At the first Miss Use party you attended I spent some time doing my
usual trick of thinking "who the hell is that, I'm sure I should know
them" and it wasn't until someone else clued me in that I remembered who
you were and where I'd met you before. I also did my trick of "blagging"
my way through various conversations with people who knew who I was, but
who I couldn't recall at all!)
Cheers,
Graham.
Graham Marsden, 05 Nov 2005 19:07:14
Amelie wrote:
> Graham, I am just as bewildered as silver, especially since we are working
> side by side but seem to get different messages - I get some and he gets
> others which seems to prove that to date we have each missed quite a
> few. I do not find the site at all easy to navigate and am constantly
> amazed by references to things that do not appear to have been
> mentioned before.
If messages are going missing I have no idea why. If you are getting
them via e-mail forwarding I would suggest that you check with
Smartgroups or your ISP to see if there are any problems.
To the best of my knowledge I've not noticed the absence of "missed
messages" (generally through quoted material that I never saw the
original of) in the messages I've had forwarded to me via e-mail.
> Also a number of you seem to be amazingly defensive, vide the flak drawn by
> a joking reference to this rebellion being too big for the Maid's Academy.
Perhaps because Sir Guy, who is strongly associated with the "Maid's
Academy", didn't consider it to be a joke, but saw it as a dismissive
and prejudicial comment with less than pleasant undertones.
Remarks like that should be considered carefully as should ones like this...
> If we are to come out and align ourselves with other bdsmers, we need to be
> assured that they are as safe and sane as ourselves!
... which can easily be read as setting yourself up as some sort of
paragon to which the rest of us need to match up to in order for us to
"earn" your oh-so-valuable support.
I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but I hope you see my point.
Cheers,
Graham.
Amelie, 05 Nov 2005 19:19:48
You say it feels like a timewarp to 8 weeks ago, and from what you say, you
do not seem to have moved since then. We assumed you had made certain
decisions since then that we had missed.
Perhaps we are being horse-flies as we are actually asking "whither now?"
All the things you suggested we could do have been done to the best of our
ability and have been reported back to the group as requested.
The fund-handling may have been good enough for the time being, but now we
are looking at a quantum leap and it is also time we started to address the
issue of shared and personal objectives.
We will both now step back and continue with our own initiatives until
someone "points us" (who? take me to your leader.....) to where we can be
most useful. Amelie
----- Original Message -----
"-OJT-" , 05 Nov 2005 19:19:48
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 6:55 PM
> --- Amelie wrote:
>
>> Graham, I am just as bewildered as silver,
>> especially since we are working
>> side by side but seem to get different messages - I
>> get some and he gets
>> others which seems to prove that to date we have
>> each missed quite a few. I
>> do not find the site at all easy to navigate and am
>> constantly amazed by
>> references to things that do not appear to have been
>> mentioned before.
>
> The failure to receive messages is a technical issue
> that I cannot answer (all the messages are on the
> Smartgroups page; if you feel you are missing
> messages, maybe you should read them on the site
> instead?). The site (I am assuming you mean the
> backlash site, not the Smartgroups site?) can be fixed
> if you explain what is difficult about it.
>
>>
>> Also a number of you seem to be amazingly defensive,
>> vide the flak drawn by
>> a joking reference to this rebellion being too big
>> for the Maid's Academy.
>> Heavens. some of our best friends are TV's. By all
>> means involve everyone,
>> but do not set us up for defeat by being too
>> confrontational. We have to
>> live, function and fight in the real world.
>
> The defensiveness has come entirely from Silver's
> confrontational and aggressive approach to presenting
> his queries, that has put a lot of people's backs up.
> We have debated most of the things that he's
> mentioned, and come up with our answers that are
> serving quite well for the time being. At times when
> he's posted I've felt like I was in a timewarp to 6-8
> weeks ago.
>
> As for the approach to take, we haven't reached that
> debate yet. personally, I think a mixture of the two
> will work best, so that we neither deny who we are and
> what we do, nor shove it in people's faces non-stop.
>
>>
>> If we are to come out and align ourselves with other
>> bdsmers, we need to be
>> assured that they are as safe and sane as ourselves!
>> Most of the players we
>> know are intelligent, capable and creative, known in
>> the vanilla world for
>> their achievements in various fields and it is this
>> aspect, allied to a
>> sympathetic and possibly amusing presentation of
>> our predilections that
>> will, we feel, lead to wider acceptance, not
>> confrontation designed to shock
>> and offend.
>
> I believe that, as far as this has been discussed so
> far, this is the concensus that has been reached.
> One or two "shock" events may serve to grab headlines
> (and be amusing), but the main thing to do is to steer
> a middle path that lets people see us in the bets
> light possible.
>
> Ta,
> SnowdropExplodes
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new
> Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>
> To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>
> Report abuse
> http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D3088
>
>
Amelie, 05 Nov 2005 19:21:05
spoken like a true Dom! and I'm equally sure you did not mean it that
way...
"graham" , 05 Nov 2005 19:21:05
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 7:09 PM
>
>
> Amelie wrote:
>
>> Graham, I am just as bewildered as silver, especially since we are
>> working
>> side by side but seem to get different messages - I get some and he gets
>> others which seems to prove that to date we have each missed quite a
>> few. I do not find the site at all easy to navigate and am constantly
> > amazed by references to things that do not appear to have been
> > mentioned before.
>
> If messages are going missing I have no idea why. If you are getting
> them via e-mail forwarding I would suggest that you check with
> Smartgroups or your ISP to see if there are any problems.
>
> To the best of my knowledge I've not noticed the absence of "missed
> messages" (generally through quoted material that I never saw the
> original of) in the messages I've had forwarded to me via e-mail.
>
>> Also a number of you seem to be amazingly defensive, vide the flak drawn
>> by
>> a joking reference to this rebellion being too big for the Maid's
>> Academy.
>
> Perhaps because Sir Guy, who is strongly associated with the "Maid's
> Academy", didn't consider it to be a joke, but saw it as a dismissive
> and prejudicial comment with less than pleasant undertones.
>
> Remarks like that should be considered carefully as should ones like
> this...
>
>> If we are to come out and align ourselves with other bdsmers, we need to
>> be
>> assured that they are as safe and sane as ourselves!
>
> ... which can easily be read as setting yourself up as some sort of
> paragon to which the rest of us need to match up to in order for us to
> "earn" your oh-so-valuable support.
>
> I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but I hope you see my point.
>
> Cheers,
> Graham.
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>
> To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>
> Report abuse
> http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D3092
>
>
Amelie, 05 Nov 2005 19:34:02
a final point - where do you get the" just walked in" and "getting up to
speed?" We have both been here since the beginning, learning, watching and
responding when we had something to offer. But if we were new, those are
the obvious questions we should want answered.
We have finally sorted out who is who and begun to ask about things that
are less than clear. As for the website and smartgroups I am visually
handicapped, so already at a disadvantage, but have spent a lot of time on
the latter without feeling very confident that I can find my way around.
My "oh, so valuable" support - you have it. We are all on the same side.
If we can goad some of you into clarifying your thoughts as you have done
for us, then our participation has not been entirely worthless. Amelie
----- Original Message -----
"graham" , 05 Nov 2005 19:34:02
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 6:57 PM
>
>
> Amelie wrote:
>
>> I am become sorry if our attempts to become better informed about just
>> what
>> the group is doing seem to have backfired.
>
> The problem seems to be that effectively someone has walked into an
> established organisation and, instead of getting themselves up to speed
> with what is happening started with "Why don't you do this? What about
> that? Wouldn't be a good idea if you have a group that...?"
>
> The response to these have been "We do do this. We thought about that
> but decided it wasn't for us. There are already groups, what can you do?
> We'll point you in the direction of the right for your skills".
>
> Unfortunately we seem to then be accused of not being "sane" or
> "democratic" because we haven't gone over old ground again or given
> answers that satisfy the newcomer who then wants to "headhunt" people
> from this group and start a new one more to his liking.
>
>> Both silver and I have been present at MissUse, I as ringmistress/switch
> > and he as a puppy girl/slave where we are known to Graham and others,
> > also as active founder members of the IOW munch.
>
> As I have just explained in an e-mail to Silver, I meet a lot of people
> through my work and since I have a lousy memory for names and faces I
> *do not* remember them.
>
> (At the first Miss Use party you attended I spent some time doing my
> usual trick of thinking "who the hell is that, I'm sure I should know
> them" and it wasn't until someone else clued me in that I remembered who
> you were and where I'd met you before. I also did my trick of "blagging"
> my way through various conversations with people who knew who I was, but
> who I couldn't recall at all!)
>
> Cheers,
> Graham.
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>
> To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>
> Report abuse
> http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D3089
>
>
SnowdropExplodes, 05 Nov 2005 19:37:36
--- Amelie wrote:
> You say it feels like a timewarp to 8 weeks ago, and
> from what you say, you
> do not seem to have moved since then. We assumed
> you had made certain
> decisions since then that we had missed.
It was only Silver's posts, not yours, that gave that
impression. Silver has not gone about your agenda in
a very effective way.
>
> Perhaps we are being horse-flies as we are actually
> asking "whither now?"
I think the answer to that, is that the group as a
whole is not ready to ask that question. Just
because you feel you've done everything you can do to
help, it does not mean that everyone else has done
with their contributions at the current level of
progress.
If you can show where the current set-up is definitely
inadequate to what we are needing to do now, then do
so and we can discuss as a group how to answer those
questions. But right now, we seem to be busy putting
into action the things that were agreed 4-6 weeks ago,
and getting on with it.
The next big decision-making process seems to be
pencilled in for after the close of the consultation
period, and to be honest Silver seems to have been
asking to make the same decisions over again, and
thereby dragging us backwards, rather than pushing us
forwards.
>
> All the things you suggested we could do have been
> done to the best of our
> ability and have been reported back to the group as
> requested.
>
> The fund-handling may have been good enough for the
> time being, but now we
> are looking at a quantum leap and it is also time
> we started to address the
> issue of shared and personal objectives.
I don't think we are looking at a quantum leap just
yet, unless you and Silver have specific things that
you are able to do right now, and you can tell us the
specific requirements that you have to make those
viable. That said, such a quantum leap is going to
come. We will deal with it when it does.
But in actual fact, I agree with a lot of what you've
said, particularly about the transparency of the
organisation.
Ta,
SnowdropExplodes
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Paul C. Dickie, 05 Nov 2005 20:14:23
In message <8190021.1131208172767.JavaMail.root@thallium.smartgroups.com
>, flagoftheunion@hotmail.com wrote:
>It seems no doubt 'Backlash' has completely lost it way. Now I am told things
>are happening behind the scene which we cannot be told about.
>
>Would you give money to an organisation that is closed to it's own members so
>undemocratic that decisions are made and actioned in secret?
>
>On on who's behalf are these decisions made? What haven't I, or other been
>invited to join this secret organisation?
>
>I wonder how many are prepared to move to a new campaign that wants to work to
>defeat this bill from a sane and democratic base. If so please email me direct.
>I am at this stage only interested in seeing how many are disenchanted with the
>progress of 'backlash.'
One might begin to wonder exactly what your agenda might be
--
< Paul >
Graham Marsden, 05 Nov 2005 20:15:38
Amelie wrote:
> a final point - where do you get the" just walked in" and "getting up to
> speed?"
As I explained in my e-mail to Silver, I have messages from this group
that start from the 3rd of September. The first message I can find from
his current identity was on the 11th of October, followed by about four
others, then nothing until his current series of messages on the 1st of
November.
That, coupled with his seemingly wanting to go over ground that we've
already covered made it appear that he was a) new and b) hadn't bothered
to look back and see what has already been done.
> if we were new, those are the obvious questions we should want answered.
I don't doubt it.
But if someone who is new walks in and says "you're doing this all
wrong, do it this way instead", whilst not bothering to find out that
the suggested method has already been discussed, and then suggesting
that people leave and follow them, what sort of response do you think
that would engender?
Cheers,
Graham.
Paul C. Dickie, 05 Nov 2005 20:16:46
In message <005701c5e22b$af04ddd0$9600a8c0@Laptop>, rosalee
wrote:
>Not discussing some of our activities in such a public forum as this is *not*
>the same as doing them in secret. Work has been going on in the sub groups,
>which anyone can ask to join. You have had the opportunity to become more
>involved the same way as the rest of us have. I find your attitude a little odd
>to be frank. And some of your comments in a previous post re:who should be
>allowed to be involved in this campaign quite offensive. Just who's side are
>you on?
One might well wonder!
How might someone post if they *wanted* to disrupt the campaign?
--
< Paul >
I wonder how many are prepared to move to a new campaign that wants to work
to defeat this
bill from a sane and democratic base. If so please email me direct. I am at
this stage
only interested in seeing how many are disenchanted with the progress of
'backlash.'
Presumably, first thing on the mission statement will be to find out if
there's anything
bigger than your ego, and have it shot.
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