Lets move forward now.
Silver, 05 Nov 2005 14:23:01
Thank you for all the positive response I have had to my recent contributions towards widening the campaign. First we need to decide what we want to do?
Let’s look at the problem in clear logical and mechanical terms. We need funds to campaign effectively. It is highly unlikely we collect funds without an organisation that can be held to account. Well it doesn’t need to be a political party, but we do need to formalise ourselves with a democratic base, committee and treasurer, without the above people are going to be very reluctant to contribute money.
Backlash needs to be more vanilla friendly and the scope of the campaign needs to be widened to include over censorship issues. The name ‘backlash’ should be dropped and a more pragmatic name adopted.
We do need vanilla support and we need a vanilla figure head/leader. A bdsm figure head will get crucified by the media. You can almost see it, a dominant leader will have one of his/her old subs come out of the woodwork, and you’ll find your picture on the Daily Star with the caption “ He wined me then beat me on the cross when drunk.” Alternatively, a sub leader might be accused by a former Mistress with the caption “He likes to wear a frilly nightie and suck a baby bottle at night.”
All credibility will be gone in a flash and the government’s job of getting this bill passed considerably eased.
The government are picking on us because we are an easy target, lets show how we can broaden the campaign and lets start fighting now.
I have good fund raising ideas but these can’t be used until we are formalised and have a clear agenda.
Posting a transvestite outside number 10 with a placard saying “Let’s be nice to kinkys” isn’t going to work.
Regards.
Silver.
SnowdropExplodes, 05 Nov 2005 15:30:21
--- flagoftheunion@hotmail.com wrote:
> Let’s look at the problem in clear logical and
> mechanical terms. We need funds to campaign
> effectively. It is highly unlikely we collect funds
> without an organisation that can be held to account.
> Well it doesn’t need to be a political party, but we
> do need to formalise ourselves with a democratic
> base, committee and treasurer, without the above
> people are going to be very reluctant to contribute
> money.
I seem to recall having this debate about 6 weeks ago,
and we decided that, actually, we don't need any of
those official positions in order to be able to raise
funds.
The fact that we seem to be managing so far with the
arrangements we have, would suggest that, for now at
least, the most we need is a few trusted persons who
look after the money.
>
> Backlash needs to be more vanilla friendly and the
> scope of the campaign needs to be widened to include
> over censorship issues. The name ‘backlash’ should
> be dropped and a more pragmatic name adopted.
Again, this was the subject of a debate, and a vote,
and we elected to keep the name backlash. Backlash
is not an organisation in itself, but a staging post
to coordinate this specific campaign; there may be a
case for repeal or amendment to the OPA or whatever
law covers Customs and Excise, and it may be that
Backlash could move on to include that; but for now,
it has a specific purpose, which is to unite the BDSM
and the civil-liberties campaigners under one banner,
to oppose the current proposals.
>
> We do need vanilla support and we need a vanilla
> figure head/leader. A bdsm figure head will get
> crucified by the media. You can almost see it, a
> dominant leader will have one of his/her old subs
> come out of the woodwork, and you’ll find your
> picture on the Daily Star with the caption “ He
> wined me then beat me on the cross when drunk.”
> Alternatively, a sub leader might be accused by a
> former Mistress with the caption “He likes to wear a
> frilly nightie and suck a baby bottle at night.”
>
> All credibility will be gone in a flash and the
> government’s job of getting this bill passed
> considerably eased.
Well, you seem to assume a male figurehead, and we
have already discussed the issue and decided that
having a female submissive and maybe a female dominant
as our figureheads would have the effect of showing
that a sub is not a victim, and that women enjoy this
stuff too.
We could equally decide not to have a figurehead at
all, but a collective of spokespeople who are willing
to get up in front of the cameras and news media and
talk intelligently about our opposition to the
proposals, and the things we like to have done to us
by each other. These spokespeople could take it in
turns (for television interviews), or appear all
together (for newspaper interviews).
>
> The government are picking on us because we are an
> easy target, lets show how we can broaden the
> campaign and lets start fighting now.
>
> I have good fund raising ideas but these can’t be
> used until we are formalised and have a clear
> agenda.
Wht do you mean by "clear agenda"? Do you find the
Backlash Mission Statement to be too vague? If so,
you could reword it to your own satisfaction and see
what everyone else thinks. Why are these fundraising
ideas contingent on being a formal organisation?
Could they be done better through one of the
established organisations who are a part of this
campaign, e.g. Unfettered, The Spanner Trust, or some
such?
>
> Posting a transvestite outside number 10 with a
> placard saying “Let’s be nice to kinkys” isn’t going
> to work.
Perhaps having a dozen subs chained to the railings
outside might - especially as they might enjoy
themselves while doing it!
Ta,
SnowdropExplodes
___________________________________________________________
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
guy, 05 Nov 2005 15:51:26
>
> Backlash needs to be more vanilla friendly and the scope of the campaign needs
> to be widened to include over censorship issues. The name ?backlash? should be
> dropped and a more pragmatic name adopted.
>
I suggest "Tolerance" for that is what we want, and society needs.
Let there be no mistake, what this proposal will inevitably lead to is a pogrom
against anyone with lifestyle tastes they consider unacceptable.
> We do need vanilla support and we need a vanilla figure head/leader.
My dream team would be Ken Clarke (everyman's right to his fags, beer and stash
of porn) and Paddy Ashdown (known to have a prodigious, but entirely vanilla,
sex drive).
> The government are picking on us because we are an easy target, lets show how
> we can broaden the campaign and lets start fighting now.
>
> Posting a transvestite outside number 10 with a placard saying ?Let?s be nice to kinkys? isn?t going to work.
>
Direct action will almost have to be a part of the range of activities and
transvestites may well have a role to play; one of the surprising omission on
the list is of TV/TG images; presumably because of the European legislation
affirming their rights: because will be on the 'little list' too.
Academy Incorporated: turning fantasy into reality
Miss Prim's Muir Academy, Muir Academy For Maids,
The Academy Club and The Tawsingham Society:
fast friendly, helpful, discreet service, with integrity
www.academy-inc.com www.muir-academy.com guy@tawse.com
PO Box 135, Hereford, HR2 7WL, UK +44(0)1432 343100
Amelie, 05 Nov 2005 15:51:38
if we are talking a few "£ thousand, well-meaning amateurism may be ok, but
we need to be thinking in £10Ks, and lots of them and have someone
accessible and legally accountable to ensure that donated funds are applied
for the purpose they are given - also whoever receives them could fall foul
of tax laws and all sorts if we attracted flak from the dirty tricks
brigade.
Perhaps someone can expand on this?
I have watched the boards and responded since the start of this campaign,
but still am mystified as to who is actually doing what with the money.
Certainly, I am not prepared to put my back into raising thousands unless I
can demonstrate to prospective contributors that there is an efficient and
accountable system for channelling it to where it is most needed.
Likewise, as someone who subsists on Pension Credit and lives away from the
mainland, I am do not have the resources to travel and stay there unless
there is a clearly designated purpose and a way to cover expenses.
It all seems very woolly at the moment, but silver and I are willing to work
closely with any of you who share our approach. (I almost said "convictions"
but that could come later -LOL) Amelie
----- Original Message -----
"-OJT-" , 05 Nov 2005 15:51:38
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 3:29 PM
> --- flagoftheunion@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Let's look at the problem in clear logical and
>> mechanical terms. We need funds to campaign
>> effectively. It is highly unlikely we collect funds
>> without an organisation that can be held to account.
>> Well it doesn't need to be a political party, but we
>> do need to formalise ourselves with a democratic
>> base, committee and treasurer, without the above
>> people are going to be very reluctant to contribute
>> money.
>
> I seem to recall having this debate about 6 weeks ago,
> and we decided that, actually, we don't need any of
> those official positions in order to be able to raise
> funds.
>
> The fact that we seem to be managing so far with the
> arrangements we have, would suggest that, for now at
> least, the most we need is a few trusted persons who
> look after the money.
>
>>
>> Backlash needs to be more vanilla friendly and the
>> scope of the campaign needs to be widened to include
>> over censorship issues. The name 'backlash' should
>> be dropped and a more pragmatic name adopted.
>
> Again, this was the subject of a debate, and a vote,
> and we elected to keep the name backlash. Backlash
> is not an organisation in itself, but a staging post
> to coordinate this specific campaign; there may be a
> case for repeal or amendment to the OPA or whatever
> law covers Customs and Excise, and it may be that
> Backlash could move on to include that; but for now,
> it has a specific purpose, which is to unite the BDSM
> and the civil-liberties campaigners under one banner,
> to oppose the current proposals.
>
>>
>> We do need vanilla support and we need a vanilla
>> figure head/leader. A bdsm figure head will get
>> crucified by the media. You can almost see it, a
>> dominant leader will have one of his/her old subs
>> come out of the woodwork, and you'll find your
>> picture on the Daily Star with the caption " He
>> wined me then beat me on the cross when drunk."
>> Alternatively, a sub leader might be accused by a
>> former Mistress with the caption "He likes to wear a
>> frilly nightie and suck a baby bottle at night."
>>
>> All credibility will be gone in a flash and the
>> government's job of getting this bill passed
>> considerably eased.
>
> Well, you seem to assume a male figurehead, and we
> have already discussed the issue and decided that
> having a female submissive and maybe a female dominant
> as our figureheads would have the effect of showing
> that a sub is not a victim, and that women enjoy this
> stuff too.
>
> We could equally decide not to have a figurehead at
> all, but a collective of spokespeople who are willing
> to get up in front of the cameras and news media and
> talk intelligently about our opposition to the
> proposals, and the things we like to have done to us
> by each other. These spokespeople could take it in
> turns (for television interviews), or appear all
> together (for newspaper interviews).
>
>>
>> The government are picking on us because we are an
>> easy target, lets show how we can broaden the
>> campaign and lets start fighting now.
>>
>> I have good fund raising ideas but these can't be
>> used until we are formalised and have a clear
>> agenda.
>
> Wht do you mean by "clear agenda"? Do you find the
> Backlash Mission Statement to be too vague? If so,
> you could reword it to your own satisfaction and see
> what everyone else thinks. Why are these fundraising
> ideas contingent on being a formal organisation?
> Could they be done better through one of the
> established organisations who are a part of this
> campaign, e.g. Unfettered, The Spanner Trust, or some
> such?
>
>>
>> Posting a transvestite outside number 10 with a
>> placard saying "Let's be nice to kinkys" isn't going
>> to work.
>
> Perhaps having a dozen subs chained to the railings
> outside might - especially as they might enjoy
> themselves while doing it!
>
> Ta,
> SnowdropExplodes
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new
> Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>
> To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>
> Report abuse
> http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D3056
>
>
Thunder, 05 Nov 2005 16:12:18
In message <200511051551.DCN18647@lon1-mail-1.visp.demon.net>, Sir Guy
Masterleigh writes
>My dream team would be Ken Clarke (everyman's right to his fags, beer and stash
>of porn) and Paddy Ashdown (known to have a prodigious, but entirely vanilla,
>sex drive).
For some reason Richard Branson springs to mind
--
^Thunder^
guy, 05 Nov 2005 17:08:53
** Reply to message from ^Thunder^ on Sat, 5 Nov 2005
16:09:37 +0000
> In message <200511051551.DCN18647@lon1-mail-1.visp.demon.net>, Sir Guy
> Masterleigh writes
> >My dream team would be Ken Clarke (everyman's right to his fags, beer and stash
> >of porn) and Paddy Ashdown (known to have a prodigious, but entirely vanilla,
> >sex drive).
>
> For some reason Richard Branson springs to mind
> --
A good person to approach for a donation perhaps; his Virgin Publishing 'Nexus'
and 'Black Lace' books are often written by 'our' people and burned after
prosecution under the Obscene Publications Act. One of the obvious next targets
if graphic depictions are criminalised is text-only books, by legislating the
'Lady Chatterley's Lover' judgement away. But he has previously been asked to
get involved by defence teams and has declined.
(For those who don't know the score, if you are raided under the Obscene
Publications Act they will take everything, every electronic media, every book,
magazine, video, tape, every item of artwork, every hard-drive, every business
record, even the Jiffy-bags and postal scales, even the Readers Digest and
National Trust handbooks. They will make three piles: stuff as innocuous as
Readers Digest, the 2 or 3 items they will prosecute on, and everything else.
If they get any kind of conviction on the sample charges, even under the Post
Office Act for which the test is 'indecency' not 'obscenity', everything else
except the innocuous stuff will be burned (nominally) without anyone being
allowed to discuss it in court. If you are cleared you 'should' get it all
back, (but nobody I have heard from has). I expect the same to be true under
this legislation.)
Academy Incorporated: turning fantasy into reality
Miss Prim's Muir Academy, Muir Academy For Maids,
The Academy Club and The Tawsingham Society:
fast friendly, helpful, discreet service, with integrity
www.academy-inc.com www.muir-academy.com guy@tawse.com
PO Box 135, Hereford, HR2 7WL, UK +44(0)1432 343100
SnowdropExplodes, 05 Nov 2005 18:21:06
--- Sir Guy Masterleigh wrote:
> > We do need vanilla support and we need a vanilla
> figure head/leader.
>
> My dream team would be Ken Clarke (everyman's right
> to his fags, beer and stash
> of porn) and Paddy Ashdown (known to have a
> prodigious, but entirely vanilla,
> sex drive).
Please no!
I certainly couldn't take any campaign seriously with
either of those two at the head!
My personal view is that we need to develop our own
identity and not be linked to some celebrity or famous
person as some kind of "rent-a-face". I believe that
if we have an intelligent, erudite kinky person
(female) as one figurehead, then we will actually win
more support than if we are shy and embarrassed to
show ourselves, and rely on vanilla faces only.
I would be very wary of choosing any famous person as
a figurehead because there will be implications of
association with whatever other causes they publicly
support.
Ta,
SnowdropExplodes
___________________________________________________________
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
guy, 06 Nov 2005 00:53:33
** Reply to message from -OJT- on Sat, 5 Nov
2005 18:21:03 +0000 (GMT)
> I would be very wary of choosing any famous person as
> a figurehead because there will be implications of
> association with whatever other causes they publicly
> support.
>
On reflection I agree; and I would not want anyone to conclude that I
necesarily share the political viewpoint of either Ken Clarke or Paddy Ashdown:
but I would be encouraged if a lobby group with those two on board waded into
the fray, as both have a strong Libertarian streak, if not necessarily always a
liberal attitude.
Academy Incorporated: turning fantasy into reality
Miss Prim's Muir Academy, Muir Academy For Maids,
The Academy Club and The Tawsingham Society:
fast friendly, helpful, discreet service, with integrity
www.academy-inc.com www.muir-academy.com guy@tawse.com
PO Box 135, Hereford, HR2 7WL, UK +44(0)1432 343100
«No Name Set», 06 Nov 2005 13:32:24
Putting some junk up here
for the mailer programme to eat
in case it gets up to its usual tricks
yet again....
Silver wrote:
> mechanical terms. We need funds to campaign
> effectively. It is highly unlikely we collect funds
> without an organisation that can be held to account.
> Well it doesn’t need to be a political party, but we
> do need to formalise ourselves with a democratic
> base, committee and treasurer, without the above
> people are going to be very reluctant to contribute
> money.
And SnowdropExplodes replied:
I seem to recall having this debate about 6 weeks ago,
and we decided that, actually, we don't need any of
those official positions in order to be able to raise
funds.
The fact that we seem to be managing so far with the
arrangements we have, would suggest that, for now at
least, the most we need is a few trusted persons who
look after the money.
And I comment thus:
I think it possible that what Amelie and Silver are missing arethe minutes of the last meeting at Central Station.
[I don't remember seeing them, either, but they maybe got lostin my computer crash. Maybe they didn't get to the Isle ofWight?]
IIRR, we agreed that unfettered would handle funds raised forBacklash through their account, including taking internetdonations from their .... Paypal? something else?? .....payments account. I further seem to remember we nominated threepeople who most of those present seemed to know to be in chargeof organising all this, and making sure the things we needed paid
for got paid.
Unfettered ISTR has a formal structure as a limited-liabilitycompany, with associated Companies House registration, and isone of the groups involved under the Backlash umbrella.
It certainly seems to be the case that there are plenty ofpeople at meetings, munches, and all those events everyone hereseems to know what they are and I know nothing of (!) seem quitewilling to put money into hats and not ask questions about whois looking after it.
It is also true - been there, done that, as Finance Director ofa Europe-wide non=profit organisation - that there are plenty ofindividuals and organisations in the world who want to knowabout the structure and "official-ness" of the organisationsthey are donating to (in my experience, we in Britian tend to bepretty relaxed about this and in other countries they are muchstricter, but there are Brits, and British organisations, whoare fussy about such things). I don't know who Silver thinks hecan raise funds from, but I'm more than prepared to believe hemay have in mind some who would ask these questions.
We've also agreed that, with the deadline for submissions, andwith the current priorities being a) to get our own personal/our groups' submissions written and sent in, and b) to spreadthe word and persuade as many others as possible to do likewise(largely through chat rooms/discussion fora on the internet ATMAIUI), dealing with the "paperwork" of becoming formallyconstituted would have to wait till after then.
Meanwhile, we have to hope that any potential donors would be OKwith Unfettered's formal existence.
I have said that, if/when the need becomes pressing, I couldwrite a constitution. But I can't now - too much else on andstill trying to cram in the time to do my own consultationresponse.
I do think there are certain things that we could and shoulddo. NOTE: I am **not** saying these things aren't being done! -I haven't seen them all, but as above, maybe they got lost withthe load of stuff that went awry in my computer crash. Thosethings:
1. ensure that face-to-face meetings (such as at CentralStation) are reported back to our readers who could not get tothem, and particularly that any decisions made are recorded andreported back asap.
2. that the info on how to send in donations is made widelyavailable. I realise I have no idea how to send money toUnfettered for Backlash work (or for other things, come tothat!) even if I *could* use the inaccessible Paypal.
3. that info about Unfettered (registration number, registeredaddress, etc) is available such as may be required forbureaucratic potential donors
4. that the people charged with handling the funds be asked tokeep accounts (donations received so far, what we've paid for sofar, what the current "bank balance" is) and report back atregular intervals.
I'm sure that many of these are on the website somewhere, but asone of the other VIPs round here, I can't get into the thing,arrghh! (gnashes teeth in frustration). I'm sure someone herewill know and be very ready to post all those long URLs toexactly the right places.
--Rosemary
zak, 06 Nov 2005 22:33:53
Original Message:
-----------------
flagoftheunion@hotmail.com, 06 Nov 2005 22:33:53
Thank you for all the positive response I have had to my recent
contributions towards
widening the campaign. First we need to decide what we want to do?
Let’s look at the problem in clear logical and mechanical terms. We need
funds to campaign
effectively. It is highly unlikely we collect funds without an organisation
that can be
held to account. Well it doesn’t need to be a political party, but we do
need to formalise
ourselves with a democratic base, committee and treasurer, without the
above people are
going to be very reluctant to contribute money.
Backlash needs to be more vanilla friendly and the scope of the campaign
needs to be
widened to include over censorship issues. The name ‘backlash’ should be
dropped and a
more pragmatic name adopted.
Just how pathetic do you think vanilla people are? The ones who support
freedom of
expression and will understand the dangers of the government proposals,
whatever their
personal tastes, will not pass out at the mere mention of whips or
handcuffs: the sort of
people who will run away crying at the merest hint of sexual diversity are
the sort of
people who would never support an anti-censorship campaign in the first
place. If you want
to win more support from people who aren't spending every weekend hanging
from the rafters
with a lit candle up their arses, then don't start by treating them like
fragile
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