on Fri, 4 Nov 2005
15:13:06 +0000
> If they already suspect you (which they would have to ever make data
> on your PC relevant to their investigation) , then they can find
> evidence of access through looking through records with your ISP or
> even using their own security system that covers all net access in the
> UK. If the law comes into practice, then evidence will always exist if
> you access illegal files. The only protection will be anonymity. There
> won't be an easy way to dodge getting evidence (as it turns out, even
> if you don't commit a crime).
>
In other words, if this legislation really were about banning the worst kind of
internet porn, the authorities and Police have more than adequate means already
to identify dangerous sites and then monitor those who use them. This
legislation then seems entirely superfluous, for that purpose.
Academy Incorporated: turning fantasy into reality
Miss Prim's Muir Academy, Muir Academy For Maids,
The Academy Club and The Tawsingham Society:
fast friendly, helpful, discreet service, with integrity
www.academy-inc.com www.muir-academy.com guy@tawse.com
PO Box 135, Hereford, HR2 7WL, UK +44(0)1432 343100
Manniq, 04 Nov 2005 17:42:10
I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here, but....if the offence is one of possession, then unless they find evidence of an offending image within the precincts of your home, they are stuffed.
Hmmm....yes...they can view records that state that your pc accessed a particular site and link on such and such a date, but... if they can't find the result of that access, then where's their case?
Many, many internet links are broken and/or don't download what they are supposed to.
Reagrds,
M
Author wrote:
> If they already suspect you (which they would have to ever make data
> on your PC relevant to their investigation) , then they can find
> evidence of access through looking through records with your ISP or
> even using their own security system that covers all net access in the
> UK. If the law comes into practice, then evidence will always exist if
> you access illegal files. The only protection will be anonymity. There
> won't be an easy way to dodge getting evidence (as it turns out, even
> if you don't commit a crime).
Morgarth, 04 Nov 2005 18:45:09
Manniq wrote:
> I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here, but....if the offence is one of possession, then unless they find evidence of an offending image within the precincts of your home, they are stuffed.
Indeed I think we are. If the legislation ever comes to pass then trying to evade being caught - by whatever means - suggests a "guilty mind" and adds fuel to the prosecution fire. Best dump the hard disc in a car crusher and buy a new one if you are worried.
This isn't a technical battle and if it were to become one then we will have lost the battle to live by our own conscience.
If I had a picture of a torturer unscrewing a naked woman's nipples with glowing iron tongs as she gazes out with an adoring look then I would want to be able to look at it not delete it. And, for that matter, I would want to leave the original hanging on the wall of the Catholic church where I believe it has been for the past few centuries.
Morgarth
DAury, 04 Nov 2005 22:10:37
> I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here, but....if the offence is one of possession, then unless they find evidence of an offending image within the precincts of your home, they are stuffed.
>
> Hmmm....yes...they can view records that state that your pc accessed a particular site and link on such and such a date, but... if they can't find the result of that access, then where's their case?
>
> Many, many internet links are broken and/or don't download what they are supposed to.
As all UK ISPs have been logging and archiving users comms data traffic for years
now, it would be easy to find people who are, or were, regular visitors to websites
known to provide a high proportion of images that are guaranteed to be illegal under
the new law, Insex.com seems to be a favourite example. The logs will show the
image filenames transferred as you viewed or downloaded them. It may be that in
future, this is enough evidence to warrant "investigating" a person, as with repeated
access (particularly if a paid-for password is required), you could not claim to have
stumbled over the site accidentally.
Even if they find nothing in your house or on your PC, from the accounts of people
who have been investigated for kiddie porn, I can guarantee that the process will
change your life.
Keith
«No Name Set», 04 Nov 2005 22:34:27
We-ell....
You could use a text-only system that won't display pictures.
Of itself, that may not stop them arriving (in spam emails, for
example) but they will appear as merely acres and acres
(hectares) of coded gibberish and not be apparent what they are.
You could use a remote browser by telnetting into it (or
otherwise) so all caching is done on the remote server and
nothing comes down to your local computer. The only ones I know
of that you can use like this are text-only browsers, so you
can't be accused of looking at illegal pics on those, either.
You could disconnect your modem and go back to paper and
fountain pen and envelopes. Or as the case may be, floppy disks
and "articles for the blind" wallets...
I'm sure you don't need me to point out the disadvantages of all
these options (despite the DDA's several year existence).
Rosemary
--
Rosemary
Paul Tavener, 04 Nov 2005 22:44:07
I believe you can get "zero foot print" software for looking at film/video without keeping a copy of it on your hard drive. This whole area is something that may have to be investigated in great detail, but later.
It must be possible to arrange for the operating system and key programs to be located on a read only drive and use a disposable disk for Internet activity. Again a lot of scope for investigation later.
Perhaps a whole group could be set up to investigate this if it looks like the laws going to go through
Author wrote:
> OK, so....for the techies out there.
> Is there any way in which one can guarantee that no images end up on the Hard Drive? Perhaps by buying a data stick and setting your cache to drive E: (or equivalent?).
> Would Windows allow this?
> Regards,
> M
Paul Tavener, 04 Nov 2005 22:58:04
Although true to some extent if you were to use a proxy server for all activity then it would be difficult to find out what you had been doing as all of the content would come from the proxy and not the dodgy site.
When Internet television takes off in the next few years the amount of content flying about the Internet will make it very difficult to keep track on exactly *what* you have downloaded even if they do know where and when. IPTV will also provide a backdrop of big big bandwidth users to be lost amoungst.
Author wrote:
> If they already suspect you (which they would have to ever make data
> on your PC relevant to their investigation) , then they can find
> evidence of access through looking through records with your ISP or
> even using their own security system that covers all net access in the
> UK. If the law comes into practice, then evidence will always exist if
> you access illegal files. The only protection will be anonymity. There
> won't be an easy way to dodge getting evidence (as it turns out, even
> if you don't commit a crime).
Paul Tavener, 04 Nov 2005 23:17:34
"I would want to leave the original hanging on the wall of the Catholic church where I believe it has been for the past few centuries."
Where is this then! Such an image might be used to great effect in the campaign.
Author wrote:
> Manniq wrote:
> > I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here, but....if the offence is one of possession, then unless they find evidence of an offending image within the precincts of your home, they are stuffed.
> Indeed I think we are. If the legislation ever comes to pass then trying to evade being caught - by whatever means - suggests a "guilty mind" and adds fuel to the prosecution fire. Best dump the hard disc in a car crusher and buy a new one if you are worried.
> This isn't a technical battle and if it were to become one then we will have lost the battle to live by our own conscience.
> If I had a picture of a torturer unscrewing a naked woman's nipples with glowing iron tongs as she gazes out with an adoring look then I would want to be able to look at it not delete it. And, for that matter, I would want to leave the original hanging on the wall of the Catholic church where I believe it has been for the past few centuries.
> Morgarth
Paul C. Dickie, 04 Nov 2005 23:39:28
In message <4618262.1131129861431.JavaMail.root@thallium.smartgroups.com
>, morgarth@z2bdsm.com wrote:
>If I had a picture of a torturer unscrewing a naked woman's nipples with glowing
>iron tongs as she gazes out with an adoring look then I would want to be able to
>look at it not delete it. And, for that matter, I would want to leave the
>original hanging on the wall of the Catholic church where I believe it has been
>for the past few centuries.
Very clever, but did he manage to screw them back on again afterwards?
--
< Paul >