consultation documentn????

Amelie, 03 Nov 2005 11:19:09

I spent a frustrating 2 hours today trying to find the consultation document
and response sheetl All links lead to "page not found" and an
announcement that the Government site has been updated with advise to search
the new home page where there is no mention of links to consultations. The
governments's own list of consultations links to the same messages. The
Scottish page is still available from the government list but the
disquieting thought struck me that perhaps all our responses, made of
necessity to the Scottish office, may be invalid. Pledges are pretty
useless if we cannot make them good.

Incidentally, it is much easier to get verbal pledges from people and nurse
them through the response process than to get them to sign your pledge
site - and I cannot do that for them - so for the 6 I have helped with, you
only have mine on the pledge - and that is useless if we have all replied to
an address where our responses can be validly ignored.

Also read Blair's own guidelines on consultation -
3. Ensure that your consultation is clear, concise and widely accessible.

this would seem to give us good reason to ask for an extension at least.
Amelie

>


Daniel Oak, 03 Nov 2005 12:56:32

Author wrote:
> I spent a frustrating 2 hours today trying to find the consultation document
> and response sheetl All links lead to "page not found" and an
> announcement that the Government site has been updated with advise to search
> the new home page where there is no mention of links to consultations. The
> governments's own list of consultations links to the same messages.

Dear Amelie,

Both the consultation document and response form are available from SMPride: http://www.uksmpride.org

Best wishes,

Dan.


Amelie, 03 Nov 2005 13:10:30

Thank you, Dan. It welcome and useful to know, but a lot of potential allies
might be put off by having to get it from your site and it is quite
indefensible that they should when this document purports to be freely
available for consultation. Amelie
----- Original Message -----
, 03 Nov 2005 13:10:30
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 12:56 PM


>
>
> Author wrote:
>> I spent a frustrating 2 hours today trying to find the consultation
>> document
>> and response sheetl All links lead to "page not found" and an
>> announcement that the Government site has been updated with advise to
>> search
>> the new home page where there is no mention of links to consultations.
>> The
>> governments's own list of consultations links to the same messages.
>
> Dear Amelie,
>
> Both the consultation document and response form are available from
> SMPride: http://www.uksmpride.org
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Dan.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>
> To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>
> Report abuse
> http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D2909
>


doulos, 03 Nov 2005 13:41:35

I am not sure I have ever actually even seen the official response
document, but then I only started looking seriously at this issue a
couple of months ago, by which time the Home Office had taken down
elements of their website.

The consultation document is available here, however, so they do have
some mention on their site
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/cons-extreme-porn-300805

as linked from the Backlash site.


On 11/3/05, Amelie wrote:
> Thank you, Dan. It welcome and useful to know, but a lot of potential allies
> might be put off by having to get it from your site and it is quite
> indefensible that they should when this document purports to be freely
> available for consultation. Amelie
> ----- Original Message -----
: , 03 Nov 2005 13:41:35
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 12:56 PM
> Subject: [backlash] RE: consultation documentn????
>
>
> >
> >
> > Author wrote:
> >> I spent a frustrating 2 hours today trying to find the consultation
> >> document
> >> and response sheetl All links lead to "page not found" and an
> >> announcement that the Government site has been updated with advise to
> >> search
> >> the new home page where there is no mention of links to consultations.
> >> The
> >> governments's own list of consultations links to the same messages.
> >
> > Dear Amelie,
> >
> > Both the consultation document and response form are available from
> > SMPride: http://www.uksmpride.org
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Dan.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> > visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
> >
> > To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
> >
> > Report abuse
> > http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D2909
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>
> To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>
> Report abuse http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D2910
>


clare, 03 Nov 2005 13:50:40

The document is there. All the consultations are difficult to find. You have to navigate by going to the "About Us" drop down menu and click on "Have your say" which takes you to the consultations.

Not exactly the most obvious route for the public to become aware of matters on which they are being consulted.

Author wrote:
> I am not sure I have ever actually even seen the official response
> document, but then I only started looking seriously at this issue a
> couple of months ago, by which time the Home Office had taken down
> elements of their website.
> The consultation document is available here, however, so they do have
> some mention on their site
> http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/cons-extreme-porn-300805
> as linked from the Backlash site.
> On 11/3/05, Amelie wrote:
> > Thank you, Dan. It welcome and useful to know, but a lot of potential allies
> > might be put off by having to get it from your site and it is quite
> > indefensible that they should when this document purports to be freely
> > available for consultation. Amelie
> > ----- Original Message -----
om: , 03 Nov 2005 13:50:40
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 12:56 PM
> > Subject: [backlash] RE: consultation documentn????
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Author wrote:
> > >> I spent a frustrating 2 hours today trying to find the consultation
> > >> document
> > >> and response sheetl All links lead to "page not found" and an
> > >> announcement that the Government site has been updated with advise to
> > >> search
> > >> the new home page where there is no mention of links to consultations.
> > >> The
> > >> governments's own list of consultations links to the same messages.
> > >
> > > Dear Amelie,
> > >
> > > Both the consultation document and response form are available from
> > > SMPride: http://www.uksmpride.org
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > >
> > > Dan.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> > > visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
> > >
> > > To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
> > >
> > > Report abuse
> > > http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D2909
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> > visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
> >
> > To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
> >
> > Report abuse http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D2910
> >


Daniel Oak, 03 Nov 2005 14:19:48

Author wrote:
> Thank you, Dan. It welcome and useful to know, but a lot of potential allies
> might be put off by having to get it from your site and it is quite
> indefensible that they should when this document purports to be freely
> available for consultation. Amelie

Of course Amelie, that is absolutely true. The government is performing a gross dereliction of duty by making the documents so hard to access.

However, to your more general point, while it is certainly the case that some/many/most people might be prejudiced/put off by the name itself, SMPride, like Backlash, is a human rights organisation and welcomes all comers, (even of the majority sexuality!). Everyday I mix with people of the majority sexuality and by and large it does me no harm at all. It would certainly be a good thing in my opinion if they in turn could get to know us and realise that we are mostly decent, loving and caring people. After all if you met a white person who refused to go into a black person's house simply because of the colour of their skin, would you not feel that they were displaying some form of psychosis? Like Backlash, SMPride is not a pornographic site, but a place of intelectual reasoning, a place to learn, a place to build bridges. Both sites should surely be encouraging people of every sexuality and perhaps especially the majority sexuality, to visit and make fiends.

With kindest regards,

Dan.


demolitionred, 03 Nov 2005 14:31:29

We're in total agreement on that.

Members of backlash have beeen approaching lawyers, civil servants, musicians, libertarians, councillors, artists, people from alternative societies and journalists in all areas of the press to draw their attention to this attack on their freedoms.


We have been pointing out that the BDSM community, fetishists and others with altenrnative tastes are being used to hide what is essentially an attack on the freedom of the net.

I have been particularly pleased by the response we have been getting in all of these fields.


Daniel Oak, 03 Nov 2005 15:16:47

Author wrote:
> We're in total agreement on that.
> Members of backlash have beeen approaching lawyers, civil servants, musicians, libertarians, councillors, artists, people from alternative societies and journalists in all areas of the press to draw their attention to this attack on their freedoms.
> We have been pointing out that the BDSM community, fetishists and others with altenrnative tastes are being used to hide what is essentially an attack on the freedom of the net.
> I have been particularly pleased by the response we have been getting in all of these fields.

That's really excellent Demolitionred.

My best wishes,

Dan.


Paul Tavener, 03 Nov 2005 18:53:54

I managed to find it with a bit of searching. It's certainly there, but if it ever goes down again let me know and I will complain to the Home Office myself.

Author wrote:
> I spent a frustrating 2 hours today trying to find the consultation document
> and response sheetl All links lead to "page not found" and an
> announcement that the Government site has been updated with advise to search
> the new home page where there is no mention of links to consultations. The
> governments's own list of consultations links to the same messages. The
> Scottish page is still available from the government list but the
> disquieting thought struck me that perhaps all our responses, made of
> necessity to the Scottish office, may be invalid. Pledges are pretty
> useless if we cannot make them good.
> Incidentally, it is much easier to get verbal pledges from people and nurse
> them through the response process than to get them to sign your pledge
> site - and I cannot do that for them - so for the 6 I have helped with, you
> only have mine on the pledge - and that is useless if we have all replied to
> an address where our responses can be validly ignored.
> Also read Blair's own guidelines on consultation -
> 3. Ensure that your consultation is clear, concise and widely accessible.
> this would seem to give us good reason to ask for an extension at least.
> Amelie
> >


Paul Tavener, 03 Nov 2005 19:07:46

There's an easier way than that: From the http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/
front page look under 'Quick links' then 'current consultations'. The violent porn consultation is the fourth one down.

Author wrote:
> The document is there. All the consultations are difficult to find. You have to navigate by going to the "About Us" drop down menu and click on "Have your say" which takes you to the consultations.
> Not exactly the most obvious route for the public to become aware of matters on which they are being consulted.
> Author wrote:
> > I am not sure I have ever actually even seen the official response
> > document, but then I only started looking seriously at this issue a
> > couple of months ago, by which time the Home Office had taken down
> > elements of their website.
> > The consultation document is available here, however, so they do have
> > some mention on their site
> > http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/cons-extreme-porn-300805
> > as linked from the Backlash site.
> > On 11/3/05, Amelie wrote:
> > > Thank you, Dan. It welcome and useful to know, but a lot of potential allies
> > > might be put off by having to get it from your site and it is quite
> > > indefensible that they should when this document purports to be freely
> > > available for consultation. Amelie
> > > ----- Original Message -----
From: , 03 Nov 2005 19:07:46
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 12:56 PM
> > > Subject: [backlash] RE: consultation documentn????
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Author wrote:
> > > >> I spent a frustrating 2 hours today trying to find the consultation
> > > >> document
> > > >> and response sheetl All links lead to "page not found" and an
> > > >> announcement that the Government site has been updated with advise to
> > > >> search
> > > >> the new home page where there is no mention of links to consultations.
> > > >> The
> > > >> governments's own list of consultations links to the same messages.
> > > >
> > > > Dear Amelie,
> > > >
> > > > Both the consultation document and response form are available from
> > > > SMPride: http://www.uksmpride.org
> > > >
> > > > Best wishes,
> > > >
> > > > Dan.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> > > > visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
> > > >
> > > > To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Report abuse
> > > > http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D2909
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> > > visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
> > >
> > > To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
> > >
> > > Report abuse http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D2910
> > >


Amelie, 03 Nov 2005 19:51:59

also tried the link from backlash site with similar results , page not
found - finally ending on Home Office home page -- but the one you give
worked fine just now - perhaps because I compalined bitterly to them this am
??? LOL Amelie
----- Original Message -----
, 03 Nov 2005 19:51:59
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:07 PM


> There's an easier way than that: From the http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/
> front page look under 'Quick links' then 'current consultations'. The
> violent porn consultation is the fourth one down.
>
> Author wrote:
>> The document is there. All the consultations are difficult to find. You
>> have to navigate by going to the "About Us" drop down menu and click on
>> "Have your say" which takes you to the consultations.
>> Not exactly the most obvious route for the public to become aware of
>> matters on which they are being consulted.
>> Author wrote:
>> > I am not sure I have ever actually even seen the official response
>> > document, but then I only started looking seriously at this issue a
>> > couple of months ago, by which time the Home Office had taken down
>> > elements of their website.
>> > The consultation document is available here, however, so they do have
>> > some mention on their site
>> > http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/cons-extreme-porn-300805
>> > as linked from the Backlash site.
>> > On 11/3/05, Amelie wrote:
>> > > Thank you, Dan. It welcome and useful to know, but a lot of potential
>> > > allies
>> > > might be put off by having to get it from your site and it is quite
>> > > indefensible that they should when this document purports to be
>> > > freely
>> > > available for consultation. Amelie
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
From: , 03 Nov 2005 19:51:59
>> > > To:
>> > > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 12:56 PM
>> > > Subject: [backlash] RE: consultation documentn????
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Author wrote:
>> > > >> I spent a frustrating 2 hours today trying to find the
>> > > >> consultation
>> > > >> document
>> > > >> and response sheetl All links lead to "page not found" and an
>> > > >> announcement that the Government site has been updated with advise
>> > > >> to
>> > > >> search
>> > > >> the new home page where there is no mention of links to
>> > > >> consultations.
>> > > >> The
>> > > >> governments's own list of consultations links to the same
>> > > >> messages.
>> > > >
>> > > > Dear Amelie,
>> > > >
>> > > > Both the consultation document and response form are available from
>> > > > SMPride: http://www.uksmpride.org
>> > > >
>> > > > Best wishes,
>> > > >
>> > > > Dan.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
>> > > > visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>> > > >
>> > > > To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>> > > >
>> > > > Report abuse
>> > > > http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D2909
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
>> > > visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>> > >
>> > > To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>> > >
>> > > Report abuse
>> > > http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D2910
>> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>
> To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>
> Report abuse
> http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D2945
>


Amelie, 03 Nov 2005 20:15:57

dear Dan, I know that and you know that - I am a lifestyle Switch pussycat -
but like you, most of my time is spent in company with people who would find
it an intimidating exercise to try to understand who we really are. So I
leave them happy - at least until the book comes out... Let's just take one
tiger by the tail at a time! Amelie

, 03 Nov 2005 20:15:57
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 2:18 PM


>
>
> Author wrote:
>> Thank you, Dan. It welcome and useful to know, but a lot of potential
>> allies
>> might be put off by having to get it from your site and it is quite
>> indefensible that they should when this document purports to be freely
>> available for consultation. Amelie
>
> Of course Amelie, that is absolutely true. The government is performing a
> gross dereliction of duty by making the documents so hard to access.
>
> However, to your more general point, while it is certainly the case that
> some/many/most people might be prejudiced/put off by the name itself,
> SMPride, like Backlash, is a human rights organisation and welcomes all
> comers, (even of the majority sexuality!). Everyday I mix with people of
> the majority sexuality and by and large it does me no harm at all. It
> would certainly be a good thing in my opinion if they in turn could get to
> know us and realise that we are mostly decent, loving and caring people.
> After all if you met a white person who refused to go into a black
> person's house simply because of the colour of their skin, would you not
> feel that they were displaying some form of psychosis? Like Backlash,
> SMPride is not a pornographic site, but a place of intelectual reasoning,
> a place to learn, a place to build bridges. Both sites should surely be
> encouraging people of every sexuality and perhaps especially the majority
> sexuality, to visit and make fiends.
>
> With kindest regards,
>
> Dan.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>
> To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>
> Report abuse
> http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D2915
>


Amelie, 03 Nov 2005 20:27:56

I did that and only got back to the loop that went from "the site is
updated, to home office home page, the same when I looked up current
consultations - all except the one I wanted opened in their own windows, but
our consukltation did not. Finally I did an advanced searched from the home
office home page to get to the page you quote.
----- Original Message -----
, 03 Nov 2005 20:27:56
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:07 PM


> There's an easier way than that: From the http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/
> front page look under 'Quick links' then 'current consultations'. The
> violent porn consultation is the fourth one down.
>
> Author wrote:
>> The document is there. All the consultations are difficult to find. You
>> have to navigate by going to the "About Us" drop down menu and click on
>> "Have your say" which takes you to the consultations.
>> Not exactly the most obvious route for the public to become aware of
>> matters on which they are being consulted.
>> Author wrote:
>> > I am not sure I have ever actually even seen the official response
>> > document, but then I only started looking seriously at this issue a
>> > couple of months ago, by which time the Home Office had taken down
>> > elements of their website.
>> > The consultation document is available here, however, so they do have
>> > some mention on their site
>> > http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/cons-extreme-porn-300805
>> > as linked from the Backlash site.
>> > On 11/3/05, Amelie wrote:
>> > > Thank you, Dan. It welcome and useful to know, but a lot of potential
>> > > allies
>> > > might be put off by having to get it from your site and it is quite
>> > > indefensible that they should when this document purports to be
>> > > freely
>> > > available for consultation. Amelie
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
From: , 03 Nov 2005 20:27:56
>> > > To:
>> > > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 12:56 PM
>> > > Subject: [backlash] RE: consultation documentn????
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Author wrote:
>> > > >> I spent a frustrating 2 hours today trying to find the
>> > > >> consultation
>> > > >> document
>> > > >> and response sheetl All links lead to "page not found" and an
>> > > >> announcement that the Government site has been updated with advise
>> > > >> to
>> > > >> search
>> > > >> the new home page where there is no mention of links to
>> > > >> consultations.
>> > > >> The
>> > > >> governments's own list of consultations links to the same
>> > > >> messages.
>> > > >
>> > > > Dear Amelie,
>> > > >
>> > > > Both the consultation document and response form are available from
>> > > > SMPride: http://www.uksmpride.org
>> > > >
>> > > > Best wishes,
>> > > >
>> > > > Dan.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
>> > > > visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>> > > >
>> > > > To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>> > > >
>> > > > Report abuse
>> > > > http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D2909
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
>> > > visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>> > >
>> > > To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>> > >
>> > > Report abuse
>> > > http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D2910
>> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>
> To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>
> Report abuse
> http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D2945
>