A record has been amended in the database 'Arguments'.
clare, 06 Sep 2005 10:42:18
Dear Backlash member,
A record has been amended in the database table 'Arguments'.
New details:
ID : 1
Argument : That this is an attempt to legislate against thoughts not deeds.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : No. It is legislating against possession. That is a deed.
Old details:
ID : 1
Argument : That this is an attempt to legislate against thoughts not deeds.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links :
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Graham Marsden, 06 Sep 2005 12:04:46
Dear Backlash member,
A record has been amended in the database table 'Arguments'.
New details:
ID : 2
Argument : There is no conclusive research evidence that viewing violent porn leads to criminal activity.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : I think this should be "all independant research has shown there is no link"
Old details:
ID : 2
Argument : There is no conclusive research evidence that viewing violent porn leads to criminal activity.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links :
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SnowdropExplodes, 06 Sep 2005 14:09:04
Dear Backlash member,
A record has been amended in the database table 'Arguments'.
New details:
ID : 1
Argument : That this is an attempt to legislate against thoughts not deeds.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : No. It is legislating against possession. That is a deed. *** The crime would be possession, but it legislates against the images, rather than the actions of those creating the images (i.e. against appearance rather than fact)
Old details:
ID : 1
Argument : That this is an attempt to legislate against thoughts not deeds.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : No. It is legislating against possession. That is a deed.
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SnowdropExplodes, 06 Sep 2005 14:20:24
Dear Backlash member,
A record has been amended in the database table 'Arguments'.
New details:
ID : 7
Argument : The "Lady Chatterley" and similar trials a generation ago failed because there was no proof that such writing "depraved and corrupted those
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : http://books.guardian.co.uk/extracts/story/0,6761,367917,00.html. *** Lady Chatterley's Lover was written in the 1930s, the trial was in the 1960s, and the ook cleared because of prosecution's outmoded views ("would you want your servants reading this?")
Old details:
ID : 7
Argument : The "Lady Chatterley" and similar trials a generation ago failed because there was no proof that such writing "depraved and corrupted those
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : http://books.guardian.co.uk/extracts/story/0,6761,367917,00.html. The link doesn't work. Lady Chatterley was in 1890s. I thought it was found to be obscene. In any event, plently of material has passed the corrupt and deprave test
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SnowdropExplodes, 06 Sep 2005 14:23:52
Dear Backlash member,
A record has been amended in the database table 'Arguments'.
New details:
ID : 8
Argument : Many sexually depraved murderers have seen porn. They also drink water, but nobody is trying to ban that.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : Bayesian probability: if 1 in 10,000 porn users are psychos, but 9 out of 10 psychos are porn users, if someone uses porn then there is still only a 1 in 10,000 chance they are a psycho.
Old details:
ID : 8
Argument : Many sexually depraved murderers have seen porn. They also drink water, but nobody is trying to ban that.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links :
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SnowdropExplodes, 06 Sep 2005 14:28:42
Dear Backlash member,
A record has been amended in the database table 'Arguments'.
New details:
ID : 9
Argument : “this material should have no place in our society" is a moral position based on taste and not harm
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : ECHR permits government to legislate to preserve morals. *** However, since the proposals deal only with private use, "public morals" are not threatened, so the ECHR conditions shouldn't apply
Old details:
ID : 9
Argument : “this material should have no place in our society" is a moral position based on taste and not harm
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : ECHR permits government to legislate to preserve morals
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Lothario, 06 Sep 2005 14:31:15
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Chatterley's_Lover
Interesting: in Australia, not only was the book itself banned, but
also a book describing the trial in which the publishers were
acquitted of obscenity! However, widespread flouting of this
censorship led to the laws there falling into disrepute.
SnowdropExplodes, 06 Sep 2005 14:39:06
Dear Backlash member,
A record has been amended in the database table 'Arguments'.
New details:
ID : 2
Argument : There is no conclusive research evidence that viewing violent porn leads to criminal activity.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : I think this should be "all independant research has shown there is no link" *** That would be an inaccurate statement. Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense, research has failed to find a link but has not shown that there isn't one.
Old details:
ID : 2
Argument : There is no conclusive research evidence that viewing violent porn leads to criminal activity.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : I think this should be "all independant research has shown there is no link"
If you would like to view the table, visit the following URL:
http://www.smartgroups.com/database/viewtable.cfm?GID=3271426&sgTableId=815172
SnowdropExplodes, 06 Sep 2005 14:42:22
Dear Backlash member,
A record has been amended in the database table 'Arguments'.
New details:
ID : 10
Argument : This legislation would criminalise a legitimate minority – the large and growing BDSM community which is based in informed consent.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : IMO this point must not be taken. Consent is not a defence to GBH, however much we like to think otherwise... *** The judiciary already tacitly accept consent as a defence in BDSM (saying the case is not of interest to the court)
Old details:
ID : 10
Argument : This legislation would criminalise a legitimate minority – the large and growing BDSM community which is based in informed consent.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : IMO this point must not be taken. Consent is not a defence to GBH, however much we like to think otherwise. Anyone who practises GBH is already a criminal.
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SnowdropExplodes, 06 Sep 2005 14:47:36
Dear Backlash member,
A record has been amended in the database table 'Arguments'.
New details:
ID : 11
Argument : Viewing violent pornography depicting consensual adult activities is a victimless crime.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : Could go further: even viewing sexualised depictions of rape/murder is a victimless crime if nobody was actually raped or murdered in making them.
Old details:
ID : 11
Argument : Viewing violent pornography depicting consensual adult activities is a victimless crime.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links :
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SnowdropExplodes, 06 Sep 2005 19:44:44
--- graham wrote:
> snowdrop-explodes@talk21.com wrote:
>
> > ID : 9
> > Argument : “this material should have no place in
> our society" is
> > a moral position based on taste and not harm
>
> > Notes/Links : ECHR permits government to
> legislate to preserve
> > morals.
>
> > *** However, since the proposals deal only with
> private use,
> > "public morals" are not threatened, so the ECHR
> conditions
> > shouldn't apply
>
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that
> was one of the
> arguments used in the Spanner Appeal, but it didn't
> work even though
> they were "in private"
From the transcript of the European Court of Human
Rights hearing concerning the Spanner case:
[36. The Court observes that not every sexual activity
carried out behind closed doors necessarily falls
within the scope of Article 8. In the present case,
the applicants were involved in consensual
sado-masochistic activities for purposes of sexual
gratification. There can be no doubt that sexual
orientation and activity concern an intimate aspect of
private life (see, mutatis mutandis, the Dudgeon v.
the United Kingdom judgment of 22 October 1981, Series
A no. 45, p. 21, ' 52). However, a considerable number
of people were involved in the activities in question
which included, inter alia, the recruitment of new
"members", the provision of several specially-equipped
"chambers", and the shooting of many video-tapes which
were distributed among the "members" (see paragraphs 8
and 9 above). It may thus be open to question whether
the sexual activities of the applicants fell entirely
within the notion of "private life" in the particular
circumstances of the case.]
Also, the verdict reached was that:
[50. In sum, the Court finds that the national
authorities were entitled to consider that the
prosecution and conviction of the applicants were
necessary in a democratic society for the protection
of health within the meaning of Article 8 ' 2 of the
Convention.
51. In view of this conclusion the Court, like the
Commission, does not find it necessary to determine
whether the interference with the applicants' right to
respect for private life could also be justified on
the ground of the protection of morals. This finding,
however, should not be understood as calling into
question the prerogative of the State on moral grounds
to seek to deter acts of the kind in question.]
So in actual fact, the morality element was never
tested; furthermore, because of the nature of what was
taking place (their para. 36), the Spanner case offers
no precedent for the current legislation, because
under the OPA (as I understand it from the explanation
in the consultation paper) even showing somebody else
a picture counts as publication, and is therefore a
criminal offence.
Ta,
SnowdropExplodes
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object, 07 Sep 2005 22:44:13
Dear Backlash member,
A record has been amended in the database table 'Arguments'.
New details:
ID : 19
Argument : This legislation will be a form of ‘precrime’, convicting those assumed to have a propensity to do harm rather than those who actually harm others.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : The government are trying to look in to the future, as in the film 'Minority Report'...or as in their pre-emptive strike to destroy Iraq's WMD's!
Old details:
ID : 19
Argument : This legislation will be a form of ‘precrime’, convicting those assumed to have a propensity to do harm rather than those who actually harm others.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : The government are trying to look in to the future, as in the film 'Minority Report'.
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Jane, 13 May 2006 12:57:04
Dear Backlash member,
A record has been amended in the database table 'Arguments'.
New details:
ID : 33
Argument : If the law is passed say only for some member countries of the EU, how will it affect those resident elsewhere, say like us, in Spain.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : BDSM Dungeon in Spain www.bondagedominationspain.com
Old details:
ID : 21
Argument : If the law is passed say only for some member countries of the EU, how will it affect those resident elsewhere, say like us, in Spain.
For/Agin/Neutral : A
Notes/Links : BDSM Dungeon in Spain www.bondagedominationspain.com
If you would like to view the table, visit the following URL:
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