Where are they coming from?
Manniq, 11 Oct 2005 08:32:49
One question raised last night was about who the other side are, really - and where they are coming from. The following link may help.
http://www.iwf.org.uk/government/page.101.221.htm
Note a few things here. First, that it is not just Martin Salter MP - but a few others as well. David Lepper. Vera Baird. In recent quotes, Harriet Harman likes this proposal as well.
Second, note the five point plan. They seem to be going places.
Third - worth getting the precise date for original consultations, since it looks like the initial support for this measure came from David Blunkett.
Fourth, be very afraid of what Vera Baird talks about at the end. I have long been wary that the government might one day go for a strict liability approach to domestic violence. That is, would make dv an offence irrespective of whether the victim was prepared to report it.
This is because, victims often back out from cases. The government sees this as failure (when often it reflects a complex home situation). I strongly suspect that sooner or later they will toughen legislation to make violence within a home setting illegal. Period. And the views of the 'victim' would be irrelevant to this.
Those, therefore, who think that they can ignore this debate because they are not interested in images should be aware that it is also their activity that is at risk.
Regards,
M
> One question raised last night was about who the other side are, really -
> and where they are coming from. The following link may help.
>
>
> http://www.iwf.org.uk/government/page.101.221.htm
>
> Note a few things here. First, that it is not just Martin Salter MP - but
> a few others as well. David Lepper. Vera Baird. In recent quotes,
> Harriet Harman likes this proposal as well.
>
> Second, note the five point plan. They seem to be going places.
>
> Third - worth getting the precise date for original consultations, since
> it looks like the initial support for this measure came from David
> Blunkett.
>
> Fourth, be very afraid of what Vera Baird talks about at the end. I have
> long been wary that the government might one day go for a strict liability
> approach to domestic violence. That is, would make dv an offence
> irrespective of whether the victim was prepared to report it.
>
> This is because, victims often back out from cases. The government sees
> this as failure (when often it reflects a complex home situation). I
> strongly suspect that sooner or later they will toughen legislation to
> make violence within a home setting illegal. Period. And the views of
> the 'victim' would be irrelevant to this.
>
> Those, therefore, who think that they can ignore this debate because they
> are not interested in images should be aware that it is also their
> activity that is at risk.
>
> Regards,
>
> M
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>
> To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>
> Report abuse
> http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D1092
>
Chris, 11 Oct 2005 16:45:38
A very enlightening piece. Clearly we don't want to trivialise this but
might there be some mileage in “reducto ad absurdum?” Tim Loughton
mentions the horror of the use of credit cards to purchase access to child
pornography - and a suggestion that restriction to over 18s is no
protection for children because they can nick a parent's credit card.
Perhaps we should ban credit cards, since they seem to be at the root of all
the evil on the net.
Worth retaining at the back of the mind perhaps?
----Original Message Follows----
manniq@hotmail.com, 11 Oct 2005 16:45:38
One question raised last night was about who the other side are, really -
and where they are coming from. The following link may help.
http://www.iwf.org.uk/government/page.101.221.htm
Note a few things here. First, that it is not just Martin Salter MP - but a
few others as well. David Lepper. Vera Baird. In recent quotes, Harriet
Harman likes this proposal as well.
Second, note the five point plan. They seem to be going places.
Third - worth getting the precise date for original consultations, since it
looks like the initial support for this measure came from David Blunkett.
Fourth, be very afraid of what Vera Baird talks about at the end. I have
long been wary that the government might one day go for a strict liability
approach to domestic violence. That is, would make dv an offence
irrespective of whether the victim was prepared to report it.
This is because, victims often back out from cases. The government sees
this as failure (when often it reflects a complex home situation). I
strongly suspect that sooner or later they will toughen legislation to make
violence within a home setting illegal. Period. And the views of the
'victim' would be irrelevant to this.
Those, therefore, who think that they can ignore this debate because they
are not interested in images should be aware that it is also their activity
that is at risk.
Regards,
M
--
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Graham Marsden, 11 Oct 2005 18:59:45
chris m wrote:
> A very enlightening piece. Clearly we don't want to trivialise this but
> might there be some mileage in \x{201C}reducto ad absurdum?\x{201D} Tim Loughton
> mentions the horror of the use of credit cards to purchase access to child
> pornography
Not forgetting those who were incorrectly targetted by Operation Ore
because their cards were used to purchase legitimate porn through the
same card handling service as the child porn site.
Cheers,
Graham.
Amelie, 11 Oct 2005 19:11:22
brilliant. we could all return them in protest - that would upset the banks
LOL
----- Original Message -----
"chris m" , 11 Oct 2005 19:11:22
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 4:45 PM
>A very enlightening piece. Clearly we don't want to trivialise this but
> might there be some mileage in \x{201C}reducto ad absurdum?\x{201D} Tim Loughton
> mentions the horror of the use of credit cards to purchase access to child
> pornography - and a suggestion that restriction to over 18s is no
> protection for children because they can nick a parent's credit card.
> Perhaps we should ban credit cards, since they seem to be at the root of
> all
> the evil on the net.
>
> Worth retaining at the back of the mind perhaps?
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
: manniq@hotmail.com, 11 Oct 2005 19:11:22
> Subject: [backlash] Where are they coming from?
>
> One question raised last night was about who the other side are, really -
> and where they are coming from. The following link may help.
>
>
> http://www.iwf.org.uk/government/page.101.221.htm
>
> Note a few things here. First, that it is not just Martin Salter MP - but
> a
> few others as well. David Lepper. Vera Baird. In recent quotes, Harriet
> Harman likes this proposal as well.
>
> Second, note the five point plan. They seem to be going places.
>
> Third - worth getting the precise date for original consultations, since
> it
> looks like the initial support for this measure came from David Blunkett.
>
> Fourth, be very afraid of what Vera Baird talks about at the end. I have
> long been wary that the government might one day go for a strict liability
> approach to domestic violence. That is, would make dv an offence
> irrespective of whether the victim was prepared to report it.
>
> This is because, victims often back out from cases. The government sees
> this as failure (when often it reflects a complex home situation). I
> strongly suspect that sooner or later they will toughen legislation to
> make
> violence within a home setting illegal. Period. And the views of the
> 'victim' would be irrelevant to this.
>
> Those, therefore, who think that they can ignore this debate because they
> are not interested in images should be aware that it is also their
> activity
> that is at risk.
>
> Regards,
>
> M
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>
> To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>
> Report abuse
> http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D1092
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
>
> To leave the Group, email: Backlash-unsubscribe@smartgroups.com
>
> Report abuse
> http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D3271426&mid%3D1147
>
«No Name Set», 12 Oct 2005 18:20:52
Manniq again:
I have long been wary that the government might one day go for
a strict liability approach to domestic violence. That is,
would make dv an offence irrespective of whether the victim was
prepared to report it.
Sadly, all too necessary an approach in the face of terrorised
victims too afraid to say anything and suffering real harm
meanwhile.
--
Rosemary
«No Name Set», 13 Oct 2005 20:16:00
ANyone know why the mailing list keeps putting the first part of
my messages muddled in with the message headers, then losing a
bit altogether, and only putting the end section under the
headers where you expect to see it??
Very frustrating.
--
Rosemary
zak, 14 Oct 2005 00:05:46
Original Message:
-----------------
forumite@umbilical.demon.co.uk (Rosemary), 14 Oct 2005 00:05:46
manniq@hotmail.com writes:
Third - worth getting the precise date for original consultations,
since it looks like the initial support for this measure came
from David Blunkett.
Response: And he can't see any of the images he was wanting to
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Manniq again:
I have long been wary that the government might one day go for
a strict liability approach to domestic violence. That is,
would make dv an offence irrespective of whether the victim was
prepared to report it.
Sadly, all too necessary an approach in the face of terrorised
victims too afraid to say anything and suffering real harm
meanwhile.
And treating them like mental defectives or children on whose behalf
decisions get taken
by other people is helping them how, exactly?
ZJK
--
Rosemary
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Graham Marsden, 14 Oct 2005 01:47:46
zak@missdemeanour.idps.co.uk wrote:
>>> Manniq again:
>>> I have long been wary that the government might one day go for
>>> a strict liability approach to domestic violence. That is,
>>> would make dv an offence irrespective of whether the victim was
>>> prepared to report it.
>>
>> Sadly, all too necessary an approach in the face of terrorised
>> victims too afraid to say anything and suffering real harm
>> meanwhile.
>
> And treating them like mental defectives or children on whose behalf
> decisions get taken by other people is helping them how, exactly?
Not forgetting, of course, that that was the rationale between R vs
Wilson 1996 (the case where the husband was taken to court for branding
his initials on his consenting wife's bum, even though she didn't want
to press charges).
Cheers,
Graham.
Thunder, 14 Oct 2005 13:53:45
In message <44834@umbilical.demon.co.uk>, Rosemary
writes
>ANyone know why the mailing list keeps putting the first part of
>my messages muddled in with the message headers, then losing a
>bit altogether, and only putting the end section under the
>headers where you expect to see it??
>
>Very frustrating.
>
>
Indeed. It's probably the medium that you are using to post to the list
(X-Mailer: PCElm 1.12) which is causing it for some reason.
--
^Thunder^
Amelie, 14 Oct 2005 15:13:47
anyone know why I keep being credited with messages that were not from me,
and get four copies of every post?
----- Original Message -----
"^Thunder^" , 14 Oct 2005 15:13:47
To:
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 1:48 PM
> In message <44834@umbilical.demon.co.uk>, Rosemary
> writes
>>ANyone know why the mailing list keeps putting the first part of
>>my messages muddled in with the message headers, then losing a
>>bit altogether, and only putting the end section under the
>>headers where you expect to see it??
>>
>>Very frustrating.
>>
>>
> Indeed. It's probably the medium that you are using to post to the list
> (X-Mailer: PCElm 1.12) which is causing it for some reason.
>
> --
> ^Thunder^
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
> visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Backlash
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>
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>
«No Name Set», 15 Oct 2005 13:21:17
Treating any intelligent adults as if assuming they had learning
disabilities is not a sensible approach to human interaction in
any context.
Recognising that a grown adult in full possession of her
faculties may have good reason to fear for her life or health if
she approaches the police, let alone appears in court, is alas a
fact of life in some parts of our world.
The para about Blunkett got completely chewed up by the mailer;
I've no idea why it keeps doing that.
Rosemary
Zak said:
And treating them like mental defectives or children on whose behalf
decisions get taken
by other people is helping them how, exactly?
ZJK
--
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Rosemary
«No Name Set», 15 Oct 2005 13:21:56
I use PCElm for all my mailing lists, and this is the only one
that's ever had this problem.
Odd it only happens sometimes.
Apologies, folks; I'm not doing it on purpose.
--
Rosemary